Originally Posted by sonikjuice

Is it that obvious? Your entire post is a contradiction. You say my problem is that my imagination doesn't "run wild." Then later, you say its my "own choice" (coupled with an adolescent insult) as to what image I associate with a song. So, which is it?

The fact that a majority of songs used for commercials are rubbish is irrelevant to the topic. My initial point was that I have no problem with SY selling their music at Starbucks, but I would have somewhat of a problem if they did something that affected my personal listening experience. For example, if I repeatedly saw a McDonald's commercial with the 'Cross the Breeze playing in the background, my enjoyment of that song would eventually be diminished. I, like every other human, cannot always control the images that pop into my head.

I totally don't understand what you mean, sorry. You will have to think a little harder. I can't read any contradiction in what I said at all. Honestly, stop watching tv, if it messes with your brain so much. If you can't take commercials for what they are, it's your fault, not tv's.

[demonrail666]

Anyone would think we were talking about a band with principles here. They signed to Geffen, ffs.

Nothing they do either surprises me or interests me these days.

[sonikjuice]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

I totally don't understand what you mean, sorry. You will have to think a little harder. I can't read any contradiction in what I said at all. Honestly, stop watching tv, if it messes with your brain so much. If you can't take commercials for what they are, it's your fault, not tv's.

I think you are just arguing for the sake of it at this point. You are also not as smart as you think you are. I'll point out the contradiction once more, and be done with this topic:

#1 - "That's obviously because your imagination doesn't RUN WILD to start with"

#2 - "Nobody forces you to not preserve whatever imagery you associate with it. It's your OWN CHOICE"

Originally Posted by sonikjuice

I think you are just arguing for the sake of it at this point. You are also not as smart as you think you are. I'll point out the contradiction once more, and be done with this topic:

#1 - "That's obviously because your imagination doesn't RUN WILD to start with"

#2 - "Nobody forces you to not preserve whatever imagery you associate with it. It's your OWN CHOICE"

Whatever. I think that you're now arguing with yourself. Next.

[Miss Pornstar]

Hey, cool down everyone!

Back to pitchfork, they still haven't posted the interview promised for monday. talk about dropping a bomb and running away from the scene...

[acousticrock87]

Sonic Youth has always done the opposite of what's expected of them. It's far from selling out. No one criticizes them for selling CDs at Best Buy.

I'll be worried when they start selling Goo-flavored mochas and Dirty decafs. Get over it.

[screamingskull]

Originally Posted by acousticrock87

I'll be worried when they start selling Goo-flavored mochas and Dirty decafs. Get over it.

now that i'd like, imagine going into Starbucks and saying "gimmie some of that Goo"!!!! ah ha ha ha ha

[d~rek]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

yes they also sell fair traded coffee which is good for farmers-- i'd rather have MILLIONS of pounds of fair traded coffee sold than ony a few in some obscure shop where only snobs buy. if you think folgers is so awesome for the world, think again.


very lucid and articulate-- repped.

only 3.7% of starbucks coffee is fair trade.
that is not much
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starbucks#Coffee_bean_market

[Rob Instigator]

My favorite place to get delicious coffe here in Houston texas is in the Montrose, Diedrich's Coffee
http://www.diedrich.com/

they ahve some locations in Cali, and a couple in Houston

[Georgekrz]

Omonia Cafe on Broadway in Astoria, or Kolonaki on the opposite corner. Omonia is too freaking hectic though, always a crowd in there...
http://alphaastoria.blogspot.com/200...-broadway.html

cant think of too many other places, to be honest, moby's got a tea shop somewhere in the city, never been though.

[Dead-Air]

Starbucks is an awful corporation because they do things like buy out their best competition, such as Coffee People here in Portland who were way better in every respect, and then shut them down entirely. Portland lost a piece of it's own personal flavor by that happening, and so I don't give Starbucks any of my money (though I hardly did to begin with since I can't drink coffee and their scones and such are so sugary they're close to inedible.)

That said, if Starbucks wanted to put out my music, I'd probably jump at it. Of course there's absolutely no chance that would ever happen, but if it did, I wouldn't feel like I was supporting them or even endorsing them.

I don't know if Sonic Youth like Starbucks or not, but I'm pretty sure they mostly see it as amusing irony and a chance to reach an audience that might not encounter them anywhere else.

This is no worse than signing to Geffen (which I'm glad they did in the long run as it's kept them viable for an extra decade or two when most of the great bands of their generation broke up) or hosting MTV 120 Minutes (in fact, I think there is more good about Starbucks than MTV as a whole.)

They aren't actually compromising their artistic vision at all. They haven't let Starbucks tell them what sort of music to make or anything. Way back in 1985 they were loudly proclaiming that they were in the same pop culture arena as Madonna, Prince, and Ratt. So now that they're older, they're adding Paul McCartney to the list. As long as they keep bringing people like Wolf Eyes and Hair Police on tour and getting out with them all and jamming the noise at the occasional encore, I suppose I'm down with that.

Meanwhile, I'll keep buying my Green Tea at Stumptown and tipping the baristas, in hopes that the evil behometh doesn't swallow them up next.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by d~rek

only 3.7% of starbucks coffee is fair trade.
that is not much
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starbucks#Coffee_bean_market

3.7% of their volume is A LOT of fair tradedcoffee.

how much fair trade coffee you think was being bought and sold BEFORE starbucks?

look, that very link you provided tells this:

Transfair USA,[43] the only third-party certifier of Fair Trade Certified coffee in the United States, has noted the impact Starbucks has made in the area of Fair Trade and coffee farmer's lives by saying: “ Since launching FTC coffee in 2000, Starbucks has undeniably made a significant contribution to family farmers through their rapidly growing FTC volumes. By offering FTC coffee in thousands of stores, Starbucks has also given the FTC label greater visibility, helping to raise consumer awareness in the process.

the perfect is the enemy of the good, etc etc. realistically, small business owners are quicker to give people the shaft than big corporations. i am one of them; i know.

Originally Posted by Dead-Air

Starbucks is an awful corporation because they do things like buy out their best competition, such as Coffee People here in Portland who were way better in every respect, and then shut them down entirely.

[...]

Meanwhile, I'll keep buying my Green Tea at Stumptown and tipping the baristas, in hopes that the evil behometh doesn't swallow them up next.

Tell me, did Coffee People pay employee benefits? Health insurance--for part timers? Did they offer stock options? How much did the workers profit from the sale of Coffee People? Eh??

And it's atrocious when workers have to depend on the caprice or charity of customer "tips" to make a living-- Thank you, massa, for your generosity! May the Lord bless you and increase your riches, Sire! pffft--- tips are ultimately a slap on the face-- a notch above whoredom.

[Androol]

new sonic fucking youth song!!!!!!!!!

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Androol

new sonic fucking youth song!!!!!!!!!

finally, someone with the right perspective

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

3.7% of their volume is A LOT of fair tradedcoffee.

how much fair trade coffee you think was being bought and sold BEFORE starbucks?

look, that very link you provided tells this:


the perfect is the enemy of the good, etc etc. realistically, small business owners are quicker to give people the shaft than big corporations. i am one of them; i know.



Tell me, did Coffee People pay employee benefits? Health insurance--for part timers? Did they offer stock options? How much did the workers profit from the sale of Coffee People? Eh??

And it's atrocious when workers have to depend on the caprice or charity of customer "tips" to make a living-- Thank you, massa, for your generosity! May the Lord bless you and increase your riches, Sire! pffft--- tips are ultimately a slap on the face-- a notch above whoredom.

You must shoot another employee Schlinder's List- style before you pass the gun on to %%£$!!

[Androol]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

And it's atrocious when workers have to depend on the caprice or charity of customer "tips" to make a living-- Thank you, massa, for your generosity! May the Lord bless you and increase your riches, Sire! pffft--- tips are ultimately a slap on the face-- a notch above whoredom.

i just tipped 1.25 for a .75 refill of hibiscus and that girl gave me the biggest im a whore smile.

[Androol]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

finally, someone with the right perspective

[Rob Instigator]

I don;t tip coffee people.

when they come to ME and take my order, and bring me my drink , then i will tip them, but when all i do is walk in a line, ask for a latte, and some fuck makes it? What am I tipping for? what have they done extra? what have they done other than what I am paying $3.95 for? NOTHING!

They earn over $6.00/hour, so it is not like waitstaff that earn less than half of minimum wage and depend on tips for their livelihood.

they get health benefits.

FUCK the starbucks tip jar. Fuck you starbucks. Fuck you "barristas"

You will not get my tip. and make my latte NOW motherfuckers.

[GrungeMonkey]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I don;t tip coffee people.

when they come to ME and take my order, and bring me my drink , then i will tip them, but when all i do is walk in a line, ask for a latte, and some fuck makes it? What am I tipping for? what have they done extra? what have they done other than what I am paying $3.95 for? NOTHING!

They earn over $6.00/hour, so it is not like waitstaff that earn less than half of minimum wage and depend on tips for their livelihood.

they get health benefits.

FUCK the starbucks tip jar. Fuck you starbucks. Fuck you "barristas"

You will not get my tip. and make my latte NOW motherfuckers.

Have you seen the start of reservoir dogs?

Just reminded me of that.

[Dead-Air]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

Tell me, did Coffee People pay employee benefits? Health insurance--for part timers? Did they offer stock options? How much did the workers profit from the sale of Coffee People? Eh??

And it's atrocious when workers have to depend on the caprice or charity of customer "tips" to make a living-- Thank you, massa, for your generosity! May the Lord bless you and increase your riches, Sire! pffft--- tips are ultimately a slap on the face-- a notch above whoredom.

I can't tell you, because I don't actually know. However, I'm pretty sure they likely did offer benefits. As I don't think they were publicly traded, stock options would not likely be a reality. Was there profit sharing? I have no idea, but I think they probably treated their workers well. Certainly better than Starbucks did when they put them all out on the street.

As for your tirade against tipping, I'm sure if you buy coffee or whatever and don't tip out of the generosity of your philosophical self-righteousness, that the server will thank you for your nobility in toppling neo-fuedalism by stiffing them. Yeah, fucking, right.