[PAULYBEE2656]

Dont Mess With Doctor Doom... Ooh Ooh Ooh Ow Ow

Originally Posted by Nefeli

wow loved that song! all your list is awesome.
am trying to remember if they had a song with war word init..
porky, baby dee has hair like the woman of thompson twins and honestly the other night, i saw a boy with hair almost like kershaw..that was a suprise.
(wait. i ll dedicate an offtopic song to yous. one of my alltime favourates)

This one?

 

 

 

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

gee, what an authority just zinged me. ouch.


frank sinatra was not pop, he was tremendously popular but his shit ranged from swing to jazz to r&b.

and you say you hate pop but you like sebadoh, therefore you think sebadoh is rock...hmmm, i don't see much "rock" in playing kumbaya acoustic guitars while singing out of tune.

seriously, you think sebadoh rocks? they have like three punkish songs, compared to 5000 too stoned to croak hippie bullshit songs.

and the beatles, well, john wrote imagine and woman, besides recording a whole album of sixties POP songs with phil "girl group" spector.

sinatra was a crooner, a standards singer, who sang a variety fo songs, but he was a complete and total popular music singer. he was NOT a jazz singer, and he was NOT an R&B singer

sebadoh - listen to smash yr head on the punk rock, harmacy, bakesale, bubble & scrape and tell me that gloriously noisy shit ain't rock man.

as for your Lennon comment, the songs you mention were written after the beatles broke up, so they count nothing towards what I said about John rocking the Beatles. and his Spector produced album was ROCK SONGS man! Buddy Holly? Chuck Berry covers? How can you be so ignorant as to call that pop?

War war is stupid
And people are stupid
And love means nothing
In some strange quarters

[gmku]

We're an American band
We'll come into your town
We'll help you party it down...

[Rob Instigator]

when there's lightning
you know it always brings me down
cuz it's free and I see that it's me
who is lost and never found.

[gmku]

Sly old slaver know he's doing all right,
You should-a heard him just around midnight...

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Norma J

Pavement have made some great Pop songs.

I partially read a book once where it studied Theodor Adorno's concept of Pop music. The opposite of Pop music being 'Serious Music', as he put it. Pop, being 'popular' (obviously), but in the sense of 'popular song structure'. There's a set structure that a song can be established upon that can be classified as Pop, or a Pop song. Where as serious music, would be, say, Sonic Youth. A band that follow their subconcious, if you want, who have no set structure, or a structure that doesn't necessarly follow a popular foundation anyway.

I'm going to disagree with this, for a few reasons - mostly around the ambit of what Adorno understood by the avant-garde (which still holds true today) and what the lay (i.e., wrong) conception of the avant-garde is. The avant-garde is not synonymous with 'serious' music, but it's often the easiest way to understand it (although I'm pretty sure Adorno had quarrels with 'radicalism').

1. Sonic Youth have conventional song structures. They may bend and distort the shape of a pop/rock song, elongate passages, use 'unconventional' (in and only in the rock context) melodic ideas, but they invariably return to what is, if we don't want to say 'pop', a conventional song-structure.

2. Adorno, and I, would say that a conventional song-structure is not the same as serious music.

3. Adorno hated jazz for its consecration of various compositional rules and its use of improvisation. Sonic Youth, if they ever aspire to move away from pop/rock (whether they succeed or not), would aspire to jazz over classical (i.e., they err towards improvisational rather than compositional forms).

4. Adorno couldn't abide Stravinsky. I forget precisely what he said about Stravinsky, but I seem to recall it revolved around Stravinsky's 'patchworking' of art, as opposed to Schoenberg's more 'complete' serialism; whatever the case, if Stravinsky isn't considered 'serious' by Adorno, you can bet your white ass that SY won't be.

These are all minor points, and I'd like to point out that Adorno is probably my most loathéd of Cultural Theorists; however, while I disagree with a lot of what he says, and I think it's not a very necessary distinction to make, within the context of 'rock/pop' vs 'serious' music, SY definitely sit on the side of the former. The point being that if you wish to make the distinction, you're more than welcome to, but be careful with it. By way of analogy, while the Beatles had a great many melodic inventions and [faux-]compositional ideas, they are only 'radical' or avant-garde within the context of rock music. Outside of this context, which is to say, insofar as Western 'classical' (in its broadest sense) music endeavours to encompass, or formalise, musical notation totally, rock music has very, very few inventions which fall outside of the initial remit of the Romantic era of music, let alone those of the Neo-Classicism, the first/ second 'avant-garde' or the more recent movements of musique concrete, stochasticism or spectralism. Electricity & volume, I'm afraid, don't cut the mustard.

Yeah. These are all words, all of them.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Norma J

synthetic.

I don't want you to think that I'm picking on you, but this oft-aspired to notion of 'authenticity' within the sonic-realm of 'rock' music confuses me for the simple reason that anything amplified or, following a great deal of the studio inventions of the 40s (in the Cageian narrative) or early 60s (in the pop/rock narrative), recorded is, in some respects 'synthetic' insofar as it is not 'as the instrument truly sounds'. By this I mean that 'synthetic' or 'authentic' are essentially non-sequiters of an identity-ism that blights the auspices of the 'truth' narrative to which such arguments aspire/ rely upon.

[Glice]

God, I'm talking a world of shite this evening. The first tape I bought was a Bros one, by the way. When will I be famous, seeing as you asked.

[gmku]

Uh, yeah, whenever I start seeing words like "sonic-realm" and "identity-ism"... I know I've just got to ask that person when he's going to be famous.

[Everyneurotic]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

sinatra was a crooner, a standards singer, who sang a variety fo songs, but he was a complete and total popular music singer. he was NOT a jazz singer, and he was NOT an R&B singer

sebadoh - listen to smash yr head on the punk rock, harmacy, bakesale, bubble & scrape and tell me that gloriously noisy shit ain't rock man.

as for your Lennon comment, the songs you mention were written after the beatles broke up, so they count nothing towards what I said about John rocking the Beatles. and his Spector produced album was ROCK SONGS man! Buddy Holly? Chuck Berry covers? How can you be so ignorant as to call that pop?

sinatra SANG jazz and r&b songs, he wasn't an jazz or r&b singer.

i've listened to all of them, it ranges from subpar dino jr to hippie bullshit. just because lou doesn't give a fuck about singing in tune doesn't mean it rocks.

my point of mentioning those songs was that, since they were written for his solo albums, it was undeniable that he had a huge pop sensitivity.

besides, chuck berry was pop and so was buddy holly, they sold millions of albums and were constantly on the radio, wrote singles and had catchy choruses.

[Rob Instigator]

chuck berry and buddy holly were POPular, but most definitely NOT pop music. chuck berry is ROCK N ROLL personified.
Buddy Holly was rock and country, rockabilly personified.

lik I said, different definion of "pop"

[gmku]

At this point, I'd like to request a group hug.

[Rob Instigator]

chuck berry is GOD

[gmku]

Then God is an asshole.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by gmku

At this point, I'd like to request a group hug.

I'm always up for some of that. Seconded!

[Rob Instigator]

OF COURSE God is an asshole! Have you looked at the world around you ever in yr life man????????

[gmku]

Yes, I have, but I thought I was living in a world without God.

[Rob Instigator]

you are.