[EVOLghost]

Originally Posted by hirsute_biped

You can't fit many changes of clothes in your knapsack when you are touring in a (Econoline?) van with drums, amps, and approximately a hundred guitars.

They didn't really take ~100 guitars in '86....did they?

[Chris Lawrence]

 

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

They all say that, but it is a lie.

Maybe. But as I earlier said, overdubs are no problem to me. If someone can put overdubs in the live album without noticing him doing that, it´s totally ok to me. Zappa is totally different case, I think the live recordings I´ve heard from him are much more studio things than live. There is very great live atmosphere in Smart bar live, I can even imagine myself being there when listening it. But it breaks in I love her all the time because that unnatural overdub. Of course it comes back in Ghost Bitch.

It is really hard to me understand why they did it. I mean SY really isn´t perfektionism band in my mind and Kim has done lots of atonal vocals. But there has been also many else things in SY I don´t understand like calling most of the Syrs E.P:s and releasing music through the small labels who do shit work.

[Magic Wheel Memory]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

everyone puts in overdubs for live albums. everyone.

some overdub badly played solos, others dub in crowd noise, a la Kiss on ALIVE.

How do you know that?

[Rob Instigator]

I have read and studied my music history. suggest you do too?

[Dr Chocolate]

do you think Hendrix overdubbed any of his live guitar solos?

[Chris Lawrence]

While I will definitely acknowledge the general statement that most/many live albums feature after-the-fact processing, there are certainly some that don't. Dare I say many, though I suppose it starts to depend on what you consider a "live album" (is "Hold That Tiger" a live album or just a bootleg?).

I'm sure other editing was done to make this show a more concise and marketable product (and thankfully they didn't opt to cut any songs!). For example, I believe the "Into the Groove" tape goes on for a good two minutes during the actual show, but unless they just left it off the vinyl (haven't heard the mp3 yet), it was trimmed down for obvious reasons.

The "Love Her" case is just odd (to me) because I can't imagine the original vocal being that bad that Thurston (or whomever) legitimately said "this can't go out like that". Perhaps it was another situation entirely.

[themawt71]

the vocal was really out of tune even by thurston standards. i remember always noticing it on the anarchy at st marks boot.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by Dr Chocolate

do you think Hendrix overdubbed any of his live guitar solos?

Live recordings that are released as bootlegs are not what I referred to.

I meant "live" albums put out by record companies as official output for a band. There is always something that needs tweaking, whether thurston;s vocals, or disappearing bass lines, or sound system issues, or fucked up solos.

[noisereductions]

Originally Posted by Chris Lawrence

(is "Hold That Tiger" a live album or just a bootleg?).

I never get this. All the "official bootlegs" listed on the Mustang to me are official live albums. They were put out by the band. I mean Hold That Tiger was carried in major record stores. Central Park was included in legit JPN pressings of the Eternal (box) even.

And sure stuff like Continental Club were sold via mailorder, but I mean Goofin' put out other releases not considered 'bootlegs' right? Shit, those Goofin' albums are even sold legit digitally on iTunes/eMusic/etc. So why aren't they considered official if they're officially sanctioned by the band, and being sold by the band?

[Magic Wheel Memory]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I have read and studied my music history. suggest you do too?

Yeah, that's what I figured. In other words, you have no idea.

[noisereductions]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Magic Wheel Memory again.

woah

[Chris Lawrence]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

I never get this. All the "official bootlegs" listed on the Mustang to me are official live albums. They were put out by the band. I mean Hold That Tiger was carried in major record stores. Central Park was included in legit JPN pressings of the Eternal (box) even.

And sure stuff like Continental Club were sold via mailorder, but I mean Goofin' put out other releases not considered 'bootlegs' right? Shit, those Goofin' albums are even sold legit digitally on iTunes/eMusic/etc. So why aren't they considered official if they're officially sanctioned by the band, and being sold by the band?

You make an interesting point, and one that is hard to rebut. I'm not sure what was going through my head when I was developing the Discography in 2000, but I'm sure it made sense to me at the time (and was possibly even influenced by other discographies or sources).

You've also reminded me of a thread I've been meaning to start...

[CHOUT]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Live recordings that are released as bootlegs are not what I referred to.

I meant "live" albums put out by record companies as official output for a band. There is always something that needs tweaking, whether thurston;s vocals, or disappearing bass lines, or sound system issues, or fucked up solos.

I just read Peter Criss' Auto Bio (fucking great, nobody is spared in the book), where he claims that virtually everything on Alive was replaced but his drums and some of Paul's epic stage patter.

As for The Who's Live at Leed's I just hope it's 100% raw dog...It would sadden me it it wasn't.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Live recordings that are released as bootlegs are not what I referred to.

I meant "live" albums put out by record companies as official output for a band. There is always something that needs tweaking, whether thurston;s vocals, or disappearing bass lines, or sound system issues, or fucked up solos.

Do you mean all Hendrix Live-records are bootlegs? There is Band Of Gypsys that was released when Hendrix was still alive. He had to do it because the lawsuit of capitol records and he don´t have any word about the cover that he hated. So I don´t think he put any overdubs in it. Even Hendrix didn´t like that record, I think it´s fabulous, one of the best live records ever made!

And I don´t also believe there is any overdubs in Live at Leeds which is also one of the best live records!

[Chris Lawrence]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

great info Chris!!

the cover photoshop thing is really interesting. Nerd.

Sorry to come back to this but I was just looking at the CD booklet for the Sonic Youth reissue and had to laugh at the previous attempt to composite Thurston into a shot of the band. Smart Bar looks relatively flawless, this on the other hand... (you may need to look at a printed copy for better/worse effect)

[Lee is Free]

Chris--I did the collage work in both cases--and in each case the 'photo' is made up from 4 discreet shots of the band... Back in '81 techniques were certainly cruder, mere scissors n glue! (also Cody helped tweak the Smart Bar digital collage work). Getting a good live photo that includes all band members is a rock photogs' holy grail (or should be anyway)--very hard to do,,,
-L

[Chris Lawrence]

I now notice that your headstock is missing in the Sonic Youth pic, but it otherwise had not occurred to me that it was four separate pics pasted together - nor that it would have been done back in '81, which should have been obvious! I retract my laugh.

The Smart Bar cover is also four separate images?! Incredible work, if so!

[noisereductions]

Now what can you tell us about the double vocal on "i love her all the time" lee?

[CHOUT]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

Do you mean all Hendrix Live-records are bootlegs? There is Band Of Gypsys that was released when Hendrix was still alive. He had to do it because the lawsuit of capitol records and he don´t have any word about the cover that he hated. So I don´t think he put any overdubs in it. Even Hendrix didn´t like that record, I think it´s fabulous, one of the best live records ever made!

I love Band of Gypsys...there's a boot called Box of Gypsys that has all 4 shows from those fillmore dates...I pretty sure nothing was changed to the music after listening to the shows from that...also the Band of Gypsys dvd doc has one of the shows on black and white early video...pretty cool.