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#141 | |
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sparky, judging by a few of your posts recently, i have to ask, are you under the illusion anyone would do you the favour of trying to argue back or engage with you seriously in any way? because i'm sorry, but you don't get that. you just get shit on. because you are the boards masochistic cum bucket and we all know you love it. you get told to fuck off and then you try to troll people down with your failed attempts at provocation that are never ever, ever witty. and then we shit on you, if we so choose to do you the favour of even acknowledging you, and you slurp it down, and you love it. but please don't pretend it's anything more. kthanx. |
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#142 | |
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I'm not saying capitalism won't end, the cracks are there for all to see. I just don't think there will be any kind of end in sight until everyone in the West bar the ruling class is struggling to eat, that is the point at which people will become desperate enough to actually do something, and that just does not seem to be foreseeable at the moment. Lest we forget, Marx & Engels were eagerly anticipating the imminent downfall of capitalism in the mid 19th Century. |
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#143 |
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I wish I could find a Ray Lowry I remember seeing in the NME many years ago.
A man is standing in a library and the librarian is pointing and saying "Revolutionary socialism is where it's always been, just around the corner". |
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#144 |
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was that a typo or did you mean to say "until everyone in the west bar (of) the ruling class is struggling to eat"? i dont know what the west bar is.
if you meant the proles struggling to eat, well that's happening now in the first world, and is about to get a far, far worse unfortunately. im not even talking about revolutionary socialism. im talking about post capitalist communalism of some kind, which is obviously on the way, whatever form it may take. but yeah, like i said, other things to do. now go get the last word in. |
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#145 | |
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#146 | ||
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Capitalism has gone through many changes. As has democracy. It isn't a single-use social operation, or a homogeneous, unitary edifice. I'd have no problem with 'the end of capitalism' - I just can't see anywhere where the simple exchange of capital doesn't take place; neither can I see anywhere where the efforts to resist capitalism didn't fall under capitalism's auspices. Das Kapital, or the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists, were both reactions to material conditions under capitalism; many of the issues outlined in both have been consolidated into capitalistic 'dialogue' (though using the word dialogue is a bit presumptuous). Trade Unionism isn't the issue it was, and it's largely been elided in the UK, but as a movement it's a reaction to failures within capitalism that now take the position of being considered by capitalism. There wasn't a break from capitalism, but there was revolutions within trades, and capitalism takes on a new form. Further back, was there really no basic, grounding antagonism of material and exchange in all but the most isolated agrarian societies? Atavism much? I'm not talking about that tired 'Russia failed' thing, but just that I can't see, I don't have the optimism for, a break with the existing, fundamental (but contingent, a posteriori) human edifice of exchange. Capitalism isn't falling apart, it's re-grouping. There's a massive amount of arrogance about that, but there was arrogance in 1929. There was arrogance in Cote D'Ivoire, the Opium wars, the Dutch East India Trading Company. Zimbabwe, of all places, has yet failed to dissolve into civil war. Capitalism is a cunt, but it's a pugnacious, resilient cunt, not an instable, transitional model. Have you read Atalli's noise? You might like that.
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#147 |
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oh ok. well yeah that's already happening, and will get a lot worse. look at the tent cities. the infastructure of some american cities is crumbling to the point of "looking more like the 3rd world conditions than the 1st" according to some guy i cant remember the name of who spoke about it on democracy now.
im off now |
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#148 | |
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Ok firstly this: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bar –preposition 34. except; omitting; but: bar none. Secondly, i didn't say there aren't people struggling to eat now, but until the people struggling to eat form a majority there will be no significant change of economic system in sight. Thirdly, the Paris commune supports what I'm saying, there was a majority in Paris that wanted significant change and were prepared to take up arms to do so. Do you have a job? How many of your colleagues are prepared to take up arms against the government at the moment, or at any point during the course of the oncoming public spending cuts? Probably none. |
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#149 | ||
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Just as an aside to this, I'm aware that there is quite a bit of meaningful, articulate and nuanced resistance going on; however, I do think the RATM for Christmas #1 pretty much represents the status of popular resistance in the UK at the moment. I know a few squatters (of the three major flavours - old-school, skag-dens and ex-law students) but they're so far in the minority as to be entirely alien to society, relative to free party-ers and yoghurt-weaving organic capitalists (and I should note, the latter two are very much a minority relative to homeowners and business people, who would be very well-served by the Tories).
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#150 |
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I know a squatter. And once accompanied this person to a squatters meeting. such revolutionary actions as glueing up the doors of estate agents were discussed. They basically just seemed like pathetic people.
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#151 | |
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But these people might consider RATM for Christmas NO.1 as pretty much the level of resistance that is needed. Not everyone is a communist/socialist/anti-capitalist. |
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#152 |
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i reply to glice when i get the time.
if the paris commune was bigger and more joined it could have worked. of course i dont have a job, and that analogy is just stupid and proves nothing. im done replying to tb. |
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#153 |
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Typical. It's only the jobless that seem want a communist revolution.
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#154 |
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im sorry but im not going to reply to a fucking moron who considers dawkins and hitchens to be britains only worthwhile intellectuals either. you agreed with nick.
you don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about and it shows. no more replies to anyone other than glice. |
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#155 | ||
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Let me know about that PM as well (he says coquettishly).
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#156 | |||
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HAHAH! No I don't! I think when I mentioned those people I was giving examples of public intellectuals. Quote:
Are you referring to my signature? That was joke. I was referring to how Gordon Brown kept saying he agreed with Nick in the first television debate (which I actually didn't watch). Quote:
Yes I do. All the socialists/communists/anarchists/anti-capitalists I've ever met are jobless and living off benefits. They're often dirty and dress in a way that is clearly an attempt to make themselves look uglier. It's Nietzschean ressentiment. The strong try to look good and work and do well for themselves; these weak reverse that. |
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#157 | |
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None of the socialists I know live off benefits, and they present themselves as well as anybody else. And they're generally a good bunch of people to party with. |
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#158 | |
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Why of course don't you have a job? The Paris Commune, what if? what if? what if? Anyway, FYI, I would cream my pants harder than you if there was some kind of left wing revolution with all the attendent glory and sending capitalists to kangaroo courts, etc, bearing in mind that I work for a living and have my soul ground to cinders, and my dignity crushed under heel on a daily basis. |
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#159 |
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browns going, but not till autumn. he should go NOW. let milband take the reigns. let him have whats left of his soul utterly destroyed.
looks like a maybe lib/lab deal thankfuckfully. |
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#160 | |
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Fair enough. I haven't come across many of them yet. |
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