[!@#$%!]

hell yeah, uncle joe!

[tw2113]

I'm still not sure if I want to vote Biden or 3rd party, in a state that will likely go Trump. I'm undecided.

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by tw2113

I'm still not sure if I want to vote Biden or 3rd party, in a state that will likely go Trump. I'm undecided.

Biden.

See? That was pretty simple.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by tw2113

I'm still not sure if I want to vote Biden or 3rd party, in a state that will likely go Trump. I'm undecided.

i’d say do your best to dump trump. at this point in history, it’s a clear binary choice between a return to democracy or more utter disgrace.

i’m sure you can help elect a viable third party for cit council or something, but the rejection of trumpism at the national level calls for overwhelming numbers of people saying “enough.”

it also needs to be a message for the republican party to clean house. they’re being eaten from the inside by conspiracy lunatics.

and for good or bad we’re a country of large tent parties. issues tend to be worked out within them and finally get negotiated in congress. this is why traditionally we’ve had bipartisan legislation.

[choc e-Claire]

I don't know that a party whose main campaigning is "at least we're not them" is the greatest thing at this point. It's pretty clear that a wide portion of the US supports a variety of progressive issues, one that (even if the Democrats do win the election) they'll umm and ahh on and in the end offer token support (like the BLM message from Warren that you were all thrilled on - couldn't she have just said it?).

[Severian]

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

Biden.

See? That was pretty simple.

^ this

[Severian]

Originally Posted by choc e-Claire

I don't know that a party whose main campaigning is "at least we're not them" is the greatest thing at this point. It's pretty clear that a wide portion of the US supports a variety of progressive issues, one that (even if the Democrats do win the election) they'll umm and ahh on and in the end offer token support (like the BLM message from Warren that you were all thrilled on - couldn't she have just said it?).

Hey, not to be patronizing, but… well, I’m probably going to sound patronizing so here goes:

Change doesn’t happen instantly without actual revolution. You have to participate in making the decisions that will tactically lead to progress in the future. Don’t actively aid fascists by not participating or voting for a third party. Vote for the person who is more likely to make progressive decisions (that’s Biden, by the way). That’s the only option without a concerted overhaul of the system.
Biden isn’t perfect, he’s not my choice candidate, but for fuck’s sake, this isn’t the time to take a symbolic stance.

You have two options: vote Democrat or help Trump.

I know kids want “communism” and so on, but that’s not how things work. You want progressive policy? One candidate has a progressive platform and will appoint a progressive cabinet (Biden), but has the unfortunate duty of having to appeal to as many people as possible because people keep coming up with reasons to not vote because Democrats aren’t hardcore enough or whatever.

Just please, focus on what’s important, which is removing the worst president — possibly ever — from office so he can stop, y’know, denying science, spouting thinly veiled racist rhetoric, running the country like a mob boss, quoting famous white supremacists and doing whatever the fuck he wants.
Oh and because he has 169,000 American deaths on his hands and is openly trying to suppress people’s ability to vote, so… yeah.

It’s not hard.

[Screaming Skull]

Originally Posted by Severian

Oh and because he has 169,000 American deaths on his hands and is openly trying to suppress people’s ability to vote, so… yeah.

It’s not hard.

So Trump is responsible for every single American death. You do know how ridiculous this sounds, right?

There's going to be some seriously disappointed people on this board come Wednesday, November 4th.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Severian

Hey, not to be patronizing, but… well, I’m probably going to sound patronizing so here goes:

Change doesn’t happen instantly without actual revolution. You have to participate in making the decisions that will tactically lead to progress in the future. Don’t actively aid fascists by not participating or voting for a third party. Vote for the person who is more likely to make progressive decisions (that’s Biden, by the way). That’s the only option without a concerted overhaul of the system.
Biden isn’t perfect, he’s not my choice candidate, but for fuck’s sake, this isn’t the time to take a symbolic stance.

You have two options: vote Democrat or help Trump.

I know kids want “communism” and so on, but that’s not how things work. You want progressive policy? One candidate has a progressive platform and will appoint a progressive cabinet (Biden), but has the unfortunate duty of having to appeal to as many people as possible because people keep coming up with reasons to not vote because Democrats aren’t hardcore enough or whatever.

Just please, focus on what’s important, which is removing the worst president — possibly ever — from office so he can stop, y’know, denying science, spouting thinly veiled racist rhetoric, running the country like a mob boss, quoting famous white supremacists and doing whatever the fuck he wants.
Oh and because he has 169,000 American deaths on his hands and is openly trying to suppress people’s ability to vote, so… yeah.

It’s not hard.

you’re not being patronizing, you’re being educational.

and it was nicely explained.

i should add that the goobers are desperately trying to paint biden as hostage to “the radical left” by photoshopping him with pictures of bernie and the squad. even though bernie is one senator out of 45 and the squad is just 4 out of 232 democratic congress members. “oooh, nasty women....” get it?

@chocky: time to stop playing at being the clever ally of your own gravediggers.

[tw2113]

So...keep kicking the can further down the road, is the advice for me.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by tw2113

So...keep kicking the can further down the road, is the advice for me.

i really don’t know what is the best for you.

my preferred scenario is a biden landslide because it would mean an overwhelming rejection of trumpism, but i’m cool with a divided congress where deals are made so that policies can actually endure future governments.

whats your preferred scenario though? remember that we’re talking about a country the size of a continent, made up of 50 states (plus non-voting territories), so your south dakota is just one of 50, with its own constitution and laws and budgets and customs etc.

which president is more favorable for your state? which senator? which congressperson? you don’t have to vote the whole ticket...

i really don’t get what voting for an irrelevant entity achieves at the continental level. in my eyes we’re facing an a/b choice here: more trumpism or no trumpism.

please note it’s not just about trump himself—it’s about a whole brand of lunacy and destruction. that’s why i’m using the word trumpism here. the whole movement needs to go.

[LifeDistortion]

This is about absolutely preventing Trump from getting a second term. I can handle having Biden being a disappointing president for 4 years than have Trump be reelected and given the chance to appoint more Supreme Court judges, and do his best to eliminate every environmental and health care we got from Obama. trump is doing his best to erase any progress this country made under Obama. He'd fucking raise Osama Bin Laden from the dead if it meant taking credit away from Obama.

[!@#$%!]

undecideds please take note:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...ld-still-lose/

Opinions
How Biden could still lose

Opinion by Mike Murphy
August 21, 2020 at 2:23 p.m. MDT
Add to list
Mike Murphy is strategic adviser to Republican Voters Against Trump, co-host of the “Hacks on Tap” podcast with David Axelrod and a veteran of six Republican presidential campaigns.

After three hard years of fuming over President Trump, it has been a reassuring summer for Democrats. The Biden campaign had a strong convention, capped by a best-of-career speech by Joe Biden. Party fundraising is surging, and the polls look excellent. But a good campaign is a paranoid campaign, especially 70 days before an election.

So even though I think Biden is likely to win, I’m spending my time worrying about how he could lose. Here is what could go wrong:

Biden could still fumble the definition war. Opinions of Trump are etched in stone; we love him or we hate him. Right now, the haters are in the majority and polls show the country is itching to fire him. Trump could try to improve his image, but his braying tone and clumsy tactics never change. Don’t count on the Donald to heal himself. But if Trump is well defined, Biden and Kamala Harris are not. Heading into next week, the Trump strategy is brutally simple: change the focus from firing Trump to fearing Biden and Harris.

The Republicans will pound away at Biden and Harris with all the golden oldies that worked for them before. I was there when Republicans did a nasty new paint job on the once shiny Michael Dukakis. Whether they want to or not, Americans will be watching Fox News-style programming next week as the GOP tries to recast “Pop and Momala” as wild tax-and-spenders, enemies of private health insurance, dangerously soft on illegal immigration, destroyers of the suburbs and purveyors of vote fraud.

Democrats may scoff at this, but these attacks will take a toll. (And truth be told — a rarity in GOP politics these days — the ideological critique isn’t imaginary; Harris in particular has a notably liberal voting record.) Barack Obama used the same define-him-first playbook to end Mitt Romney’s White House hopes in 2012.

The debates worry me, too. So far, the election has mostly been Trump vs. covid-19, and the virus has won every round. Biden’s terrific convention speech smashed Trump’s dire hints about Biden’s mental acuity, but now that he’s a proven home-run hitter, Biden will face much higher expectations. As a Motor City native, I greatly enjoyed Biden’s new video with his classic Corvette. Now get back to debate prep, Joe.

One more worry. I fear a black-swan scenario based on the most reliable force of all: human nature.

We know covid-19 is the true special feature of this election. It has crushed the president’s poll numbers. It has hurt millions of Americans, flattened the economy and made the electorate fearful and uneasy. The fatigue we all share is powerful, draining, exhausting; Americans desperately crave some good news.

Which means you can count on our cornered and unrestrained president to try to manufacture some. He’s already tried with phony cures including old malaria drugs, Clorox and the healing power of ultraviolet fish tank cleaning lights. But in a few weeks, Dr. Trump may “discover” a far more powerful elixir: Tens of thousands of patients are already in advanced trials for experimental vaccines. Whatever the ultimate outcome of these trials, it is certain that murky, highly preliminary news will leak.

Even a whiff of promising results, regardless of how premature they might be, will spark a surge of euphoria. The breathless media of our digital age will erupt. A cure is on the way! Markets will rocket higher and businesses will rush to open, as a huge wave of relief envelops a country sick of wearing masks. It’s all based on our understandable hunger for something good to happen.

This could make for an interesting October.

Trump will move fast to exploit this moment with the full power of his office. Whether any of it is scientifically true will be irreverent to Trump. It will be also be irrelevant to many voters; as every dodgy operator knows, people just want to believe; be it a Bernie Madoff scam, a magic diet book, a Trump University hustle or any other of the cons, large and small, in human history. Trump, of course, understands that all too well.

I still think Biden beats Trump. I’d bet money on it. But not too much money. Only about 7 or 8 percent of the vote is really in play. Some will be convinced that Biden and Harris are too risky a choice. And if only half of the rest feel the cure craze and change their minds, everything can change. Don’t underestimate manias. The most famous example comes from wealthy 17th-century Holland. As most people know, in one particularly speculative moment, the price of a tulip exploded from virtually nothing to the price of a house. How long did it take for reason to go out the window? About 75 days.

It was probably a crazy time. But what would you call this?

See you in November.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Screaming Skull

So Trump is responsible for every single American death. You do know how ridiculous this sounds, right?

There's going to be some seriously disappointed people on this board come Wednesday, November 4th.

Potentially, yeah. Absolutely.
Of course some of these people would have died if he HAD done his job, but, y’know, he did not, and he actively prevented people from receiving the help the needed (catch his standoff with Michigan’s governor?) and deliberately downplayed the severity of Covid, which in turn encouraged hundreds of thousands of people to fill the streets in protest of stay-at-home orders, and emboldened science-deniers in the populace by politicizing the issue and pretending it was a “freedom” thing and not a “we could all die” thing.
Oh and he touted bullshit treatments and non-effective drugs and admitted to stalling vaccine work...
…
Sooooo yeah, I’m putting those deaths on Trump’s tab.
100%.

Cool? Cool.

[tw2113]

As much as I don't support Trump, there is absolutely PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY TO LISTEN TO SCIENCE AND REASON that caused its own amount of deaths. He does get his fair share of responsibility because there is the coalition that will only listen if POTUS says so, but the rest should blame themselves for not taking proactive measures to help themselves and others.


The fact that there are people who only act if a government official, that they agree with and support, endorses something is an issue all on its own and disgusting in its own right.

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by tw2113

The fact that there are people who only act if a government official, that they agree with and support, endorses something is an issue all on its own and disgusting in its own right.

Yeah, well, that's his fanatic 40% (or whatever it is at this point) cult for ya. The guy from Axios said it to his face: I've been to your rallies, they won't listen to me, they won't listen to the media, they think we're fake news, you're the one responsible. I mean, even if you discard the extraordinarily chaotic nature of his administration's response, the dismissal of the concrete early warnings, the profit-over-health policies, etc, this is a president who hasn't told the people of his country to wear masks, to keep a safe distance from each other, to wash their fucking hands regularly for twenty fucking seconds. It's on him.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Robert Schunk

Actually, those who protested against stay-at-home orders largely did so while driving around in automobiles, which constituted the practice of social distancing, and hardly numbered in the hundreds of thousands. Those who filled the streets in the hundreds of thousands were those peacefully protesting against the murder of George Floyd, with no observed ill effects.

Yet there was also much rioting attached to the George Floyd protests, which were largely confined to cities and states under liberal Democratic Party rule. My own city-state of Providence, Rhode Island (which is very nearly a city-state after the Greek and Mayan model) is run by a liberal Democrat who rules a bit like a middle-of-the-road Republican (with such exceptions as a barbaric abortion bill and a "Domestic Violence Prevention Act" which seems to me to be more of an attempt to disarm recent military veterans). When the Massachusetts State Police detected a plan to burn our Statehouse down (which would have been difficult seeing as it's built almost entirely of stone!), she pulled out all the law-enforcement stops to prevent that from happening, and the city has been quiet since (save for a gang war which has caused five homicides within the last two weeks, but that's par for the course around here). The bottom line is, she didn't shut down manufacturing (thus greatly limiting the economic impact of the shutdown), and the state has since recovered MOST of the jobs lost due to the shutdown.

Jesus Christ, mate, be quiet with your “actuallys” …
There were more protests than the ones you saw on TV (where people were still — ACTUALLY — congregating, often maskless, in and out of vehicles, sometimes WITH LOADED WEAPONRY, bitching about not being able to get haircuts).
Sure, some folks were in cars. Lot of them weren’t. They were still openly rallying against fucking SAFETY. Or they were piling onto beaches or having parties, and people fucking died because of it.
Don’t “actually” me, dude.

Meanwhile, in every piece of footage I’ve seen from BLM protests, masks and other PPE were worn (as long as people weren’t actively streaming and crying from being gassed or shot).

In any case, you’re making a complete tool of yourself by pretending the right to bitch about wanting to ignore public health guidelines is the same as wanting justice for YET ANOTHER innocent, unarmed black man murdered in cold blood by police.

I’m not even gonna stop by here if this shit keeps coming up. I have enough of these debates with morons in real life to deal with it on a forum like this, where people should honestly know better (be better?).

ACTUALLY

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by tw2113

there is absolutely PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY TO LISTEN TO SCIENCE AND REASON that caused its own amount of deaths. He does get his fair share of responsibility because there is the coalition that will only listen if POTUS says so, but the rest should blame themselves for not taking proactive measures to help themselves and others.

i hear you there and personally i took matters into my own hands way above and beyond government requirements, local or otherwise.

nevertheless, libertarian attitudes quickly hit a wall when running into bad policies, because you can control yourself but you don’t control the environment— policies do.

so on your own you may choose to stay home and keep safe; but when you’re required to come to work to an unsafe place, and you have to choose between your life and making a living... and let’s say you live with 4 kids plus grandma who looks after them when you work... the situation gets a lot more complicated.

on your own you might choose to wear a mask but when nobody else around you wants to, it’s kind of pointless.

on your own you might want to get a test or a vaccine but there are none available.

government really has to count for something, and this trump clown shitshow has gone on long enough. biden might not be your perfect candidate but a little more science and reason go a long way.

south korea has 1% *of our death rate*. ‘nuff said.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Severian

ACTUALLY

lmfao what the fuck are you doing arguing with drunkle bob’s inanities and offering to cede the whole territory for him to urinate on while half-conscious?

just put the motherfucker on ignore. in my opinion he only comes here for the attention cuz he’s drunk and lonely. so—just deny him and don’t waste any more breath on him.

then stick around to talk with reasonable people.

[h8kurdt]

Originally Posted by Robert Schunk

.

So why should we vote for those who welcome mass death as a campaign ploy, even should there be no actual vaccine by then?

What a load of Billy bear bullshit. Must be nice to loudly proclaim nonsense without having to back it up. Basically what Trump has done his whole career.