[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by kingcoffee

It isn't the myth of God it's the myths of gods. All cultures don't beleive in one god. Many cultures believed in many god's that did not represent each other in other cultures.

Maybe if someone here was an anthropologist/theologist then maybe we could get some clearer perspective on this whole discussion.

My New Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology, Mysterium Conjunctionis & The Golden Bough are all well-worn volumes. I've read & have devoted study to most of the major (& some rather esoteric ones as well) religious texts & works of philosophy. I've also recommended an actual anthropology book on this forum several times in the past as well, Magic & Schizophrenia by Geza Roheim, about Aboriginal culture.

Originally Posted by kingcoffee

I don't know why people believe in god even from a very ancient stand point, but by your logic, if people who believed in gods were correct, then there wouldn't be just one god, there would be literally thousands of gods. Every culture's religions would be correct. Their would be many gods of the harvest, of the rain, the sun, the earth, rocks, trees, everything would be represented by separate gods. I know that you believe in one God, the christian/jewish/muslim God Yahweh, but if all people who believed in god/gods were inspired by the divine then the heavens would be littered with many different gods. How come you dont belive in all those gods? Why do yuo rest your faith in just one? You have a veritable pick of the litter from which to choose yr deities.

I'll end this post by repeating the very first words that I wrote in this thread:

Originally Posted by me

different cultures interpret the religious experience differently, (each for their time & place) but in essence, most of the underlying principles are the same.

[Cantankerous]

in traditional cantankernine tradition, when she sees a thread that is complete tripe she will try to bring light to the situation.

beer just shot out my nose.

[k-krack]

oh cantankerous, you silly, silly bastard. was there a reason for beer shooting outcher nose?

[kingcoffee]

Originally Posted by Cantankerous

beer just shot out my nose.

Classy.

[alyasa]

I just want to point out that true it may be that not all cultures believe in one God and the same God, but that is purely academic. Approximately 3.4 billion people believe in the judeo-christian-islamic God. There are approximately 6.5 billion people in this world right now. More than half of the population of this planet apparently believe in more or less the exact same thing at the more or less the exact same time. Granted there are still disagreements and wars and hate and hypocrisy and judgemental mentalities and lies, but to get even one whole Sonic Youth message board to agree on one thing is difficult. And we all are Sonic Youth fans. This belief that there is a God, a divine, greater being has apparently had more than half the planet in agreement. Those are numbers that should set a person thinking about the sheer tenacity of a truth like God. Because, at that level of saturation, it's probably going to stick around for a long time to come...

[sonikjuice]

This is the last thing I'm going to say in this thread...

It is stupid to believe something is true merely because a lot of other people believe it is true. It almost as stupid to believe it as evidence of truth. For whatever reasons a person may believe that a god or gods exist, this is the worst possible reason. The fact that a majority of the world believes in a god is irrelevant as to whether god actually exists. For a long time the majority of the world thought the Earth revolved around the Sun - and they were wrong. I'm sure it's nice to be in the majority, but belonging to a majority may be a reason why a lot of people believe in god in the first place.
And the differences between believing in one god or multiple gods is not "purely academic." This is a huge difference that contradicts the heart of your argument. You can't just throw it aside. Not everyone believes in the "exact same thing at the exact same time." Your argument would be more plausible, although still incoherent, if everyone had the same concept of a monolithic god. But they don't. The beliefs of Native Americans and African tribes (who weren't brutally slaughtered for not accepting Christ) are completely different than those of most Europeans. The beliefs of Hindus and Buddhists (who may not necessarily accept a god as true), who existed long before Christians and Muslims, are also completely different.

But even if everyone did agree, it still wouldn't make it true.

Originally Posted by alyasa

I just want to point out that true it may be that not all cultures believe in one God and the same God, but that is purely academic. Approximately 3.4 billion people believe in the judeo-christian-islamic God. There are approximately 6.5 billion people in this world right now. More than half of the population of this planet apparently believe in more or less the exact same thing at the more or less the exact same time. Granted there are still disagreements and wars and hate and hypocrisy and judgemental mentalities and lies, but to get even one whole Sonic Youth message board to agree on one thing is difficult. And we all are Sonic Youth fans. This belief that there is a God, a divine, greater being has apparently had more than half the planet in agreement. Those are numbers that should set a person thinking about the sheer tenacity of a truth like God. Because, at that level of saturation, it's probably going to stick around for a long time to come...

[Cantankerous]

Originally Posted by k-krack

oh cantankerous, you silly, silly bastard. was there a reason for beer shooting outcher nose?

not that i am aware of.

[alyasa]

Do you believe in rapture?

[kingcoffee]

I agree with Sonikjuice. Just because something is very popular, doesn't make it true. People used to truly believe that the earth was flat. Everyone thought that, but it wasn't true. It just appeared to be flat. It also appears to the weak of mind that there are inexplicable occurances in the natural world that could be explained only by the work of a higher power. But as we as a people grow and learn, we realize that it is not the (direct) work of god's, but rather the mechanics of nature. Maybe a god does control it all. But we'll just never know. It appears to the learned people who study the universe that the existance of God is absent in any physical way. Not to say that scientists don't have faith, but it is kept seperate from their work.

[acousticrock87]

I believe that it was the learned people of their time who believed that the shape of a plant indicated what medicinal use it had, and that our sickness and heath was dictated by a balance of four humors, among other theories - and they were sometimes right. Now, assuming divine guidance of that sort is absolutely unthinkable, they were completely off the mark. But they were the scientists, and it did seem to work. They, in fact, did discover important connections, but through a completely faulty way. Yet they believed whole-heartedly that they were correct, because as scientists they had the authority on it.

Now that we've mastered that art and realize how wrong we were, there are other things to master. Origin is one of them, and with all the theories and postulations floating around the scientific and philosophical communities, we are probably nowhere near the truth - even though certain aspects might seem to make sense. In this case, I agree - we'll never know. But to assume that the assumptions of the scientifically learned are any more conclusive at this point is simply following another kind of crowd (and I beg to differ - many, many scientists, even those setting out to disprove God, have actually come to the conclusion that there is evidence).

[atari 2600]

Origin as a species is clearly evolution right down to the amoeba in the sea & the fish coming onto land.
The origin of the universe is the big bang through which Eternity & Time is simultaneous which is the Oneness, that, in our useful but imperfect language, we mistakenly identify as "the other" and name as a separate entity we call "God."

[alyasa]

If the majority of the planet believes in God because of the popularity of the concept of religion, I'm afraid this planet is far more fucked than it'll ever know. Religion is a deeply spiritual, intensely personal, ultimately enriching experience, filled with nuances and subtleties that are supposed to broaden your horizons and open up your viewpoints to a vast wealth of knowledge, experience and wisdom. If popularity is the only reason God exists; I'm afraid most of this planet is filled with slaves, unable to rise above their own shackles, afraid to do anything except what they've been told to do, and; at the same time; deluded and tricked by the small percentage of people who exploit and manipulate the mass of humanity into believing that their opinions are their own, their thoughts are their own, their beliefs are their own.

It would be better, I sincerely think, for the population of this planet to abandon their sobriety and for there to be a violent, tumultous struggle and upheaval, for the sake of a future for the coming generations to appreciate and enjoy; if the underlying principle behind religion is no better than that which drives Britney Spears. This planet should scrub its own raw, decaying flesh clean and strive to purge itself of the scourge of its own ruin. There can only be movement and momentum when a force is applied, an object at rest will remain at rest. Unfortunately, I think this planet has gone completely and utterly straight to hell. Whilst a minute percentage luxuriate in the suffering and slavery of the misguided masses.

Sorry for the rant.

[atari 2600]

I agree, it's just that, to clarify, religion, like everything else, has become a perversion these days. It's used as a justification of a means to an end that is very judgemental & ultimately, tyrannical. I'm not just referring to the current U.S. administration.

The same kid that copied off tests in school, wanted to borrow your notes, got caught cheating, was always asking if you had extra materials, etc. well, that person, that person should by all means have been the one to grow up a bum in society, but what do we find? We find out that they are now successful & influential. I have a feeling that I'm not alone here in this empirical experience.
It's indeed frustrating and wholly wrong really that the natural laws have been perverted to suit the agenda of the wealthy or those with the cutthroat mentality in general. This is not how things should be obviously as free enterprise in a representative democracy should actually foster a meritocracy. Usually, the richer the background, the more steeped it is in religious brainwashing & the only reason the family is religious is to fit in & to use it as a blanket to hide a multitude of sins.
But one can't obsess about all of this either.
Life will never conform to our expectations & it's ridiculous that we all get so caught up thinking that it should all the time.

[alyasa]

The family, the basic unit of indiviuality in Social Warcraft. Very useful as a starting unit, due to their versatility. Warmongers should start building as many of these units as soon as possible to strengthen and build up their social engineering quota. Will do almost everything the player asks them to, out of a deep-seated, evolutionary fear of disintegration that is apparent to world leaders and religious hatemongers, who exploit this to solidify their footing in the game. Know Your Enemy!

[acousticrock87]

I don't think a Democracy is meant to foster merit at all. It's meant to foster the people. It serves the cutthroats because, in America, the majority of people are either a) cutthroat politicians or b) people willing to vote cutthroat politicians into ridiculous positions of power, positions of power which they have given themselves into through the social contract. That's why America is, very accurately, a Democracy.

However, obviously it should not be that way. I'm all for Democracy, and think that it's an ideal system. But not when people are stupid about it. It's bound to fail, like the majority of political systems. I think, though, that for now it seems to be a comparitively stable one. It is mediocre in potential and mediocre in stability, as opposed to the stable and destructive Monarchy, or the impossible but potentially rewarding Communism.

[alyasa]

As long as a majority of the people don't self-destruct, everything should be just fine. Meritocracies, democracies, communism and monarchies are just terms to simplify and narrow down what is essentially a complex and twisting overarching system to make the most gains out of the least amount of effort for the least amount of people. That's what it's about.

[acousticrock87]

True. Politics is a lot like deciding which channel to watch in a crowded room. And some of the people have guns...

[alyasa]

And when you put religion into it...

[Lipslikewindows]

I'm not really sure what to say anymore. I guess I would start by clarifying that I think the majority of people who "believe" in God probably don't. And the ones that really do believe in God probably believe the majority of what they believe because they were raised with it (I think this carries over to atheism, agnosticism, pure materialist views, et al.). Past that, the people who have had a kind of "enlightenment" where they saw some truth that was unique and personal probably don't have the will power, patience, or ability to put their ego aside long enough to keep track of it (I'm one of these people: I feel I've been shown a lot of truth by God but I keep trying, with my own logic, ego, and strength to complete his sentences for him). Religion (by which I strictly mean a REAL belief in God and whatever other beliefs about said God you have) is personal or it's nonexistent. It's also, I think, something you have to really truly want. I don't think that we can never know whether or not God exists. Rather, I think if we really really really want to find out, we will (though I make absolutely NO claim on how long that answer could be in coming). King, you were probably right to discard your parents' Christianity. Not because it was wrong, but because it wasn't yours (though it could've been wrong too, that's beside the point). But realizing the theory of evolution is valid, or that more blood has been spilled in the name of Christ than by the Nazis, doesn't invalidate anything about Christ, much less whether or not God exists. I won't pretend to know how much you currently care about finding out if there IS a God. You seem to be a staunch agnostic: your belief is that we can't really have belief without just hoping for the best. And that's a circularly reinforced dogma. As long as you believe we can't know, you won't know, because anything that comes to you will be drowned out by your belief that it's unknowable. But I do think that if you think it's possible that God exists, and also possible that he doesn't, you have to, logically, allow room for the possibility that you CAN KNOW the answer. Marrying yourself to the idea that there's NO WAY you can know seems like a bad move.

[atari 2600]

That's it right there.