[pbradley]

I don't think that's it, exactly. I'm pessimistic about everything, be it capitalism, communism, communalism, or whatever else, but am still sympathetically left.

[Hip Priest]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

ha ha ha, calvin... yeah... but like calvin there were a myriad others-- even today, the televangelists scamming millions of people into sending money to support hate-- the thing is that the words are not so easy to fathom-- there are various diverging versions plus the writings of the apostles plust the apocryphal gospels and who knows what is what? so in the end everyone grabs a piece of scripture and builds an edifice of bullshit on top of it with which to wield power over others.

Well, not everyone builds an edifice of bullshit. Many are just looking for the truth, and trying to keep things simple. Most Christians are not screaming, greedy manipulators.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

which is by the way one of my problems with the reformation-- sure, the catholic church at the time was festering with corruption, but the centralized interpretation of the bible kept things more or less in check.

The Roman Catholic church still maintains as central several things that a great many Christians find to be contrary to the teachings of Jesus.

I am one of those people, and I think the faith needed stripping of those things. I am not one of the people who think that RCs are not Christian, however (a growing trend within non-RC communities).

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

once everyone had the freedom to make up their own meaning, all kinds of shit religions started to pop up.

Yes. But the thing is, and at the risk of repeating my central thought too much, what Jesus taught is pretty clear and obvious. It's simple, beautiful and no hard to get at.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

the reformation was great for the cause of freedom, but its downside is that it opened the door for all manner of cuckoo cults (ah, makes me miss the inquisition!-- no, not really).

It opened the door for people to look for the truth without strict control. That's good.

There are just as many cuckoo cult-type groups within things like socialism &c for me to repeat another point; these criticisms are criticisms of people, not religion. Religion, like politics, nationality &c, is often misused by people with their own motives.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i think the story of jesus is a nice metaphor for overcoming the limitations of the ego, and a good inspiration for socialism, and that's about that, but to try to turn it into a historical figure and find the "truth" about it is a kind of a wild goose chase.

It isn't. You have my word on it.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

right, but we don't need religion in order to have morality. we have our own animal behavior and if we work it out with some philosophy morality is just fine-- we don't need a deity or metaphysics to justify morality.

Earlier, as you will recall, I quoted a Bible passage that agreed with you, but with a slightly different spin. Whether you personally 'need' a god is not going to make much difference to whether or not one actually exists. He does. I definitely do not need socialism, but, to my extreme annoyance, it seems to keep spawning and surviving like some kind of insane labour party flu virus.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

yes, but here in 'merica the aggressive christians are legion (yes, there's a pun intended). bazillions of demented believers in the clutches of a handful of quacks. it's frightful.

I go to some lengths to follow Chrisitanity aound the world - printed media, broadcasts etc.

I have to admit that I do not like the vast majority of what I hear from America. I can understand Americans having huge problems with Christianity - most of what I see certainly doesn't represent what I believe, and certainly doesn't represent the teachings of Jesus. There are some people I really like, but they are the exception.

Christianity in the UK is not usually so aggressive, although that aspect is certainly present.

Christianity's main problem in recent years, I think, is that it is largely the lunatic fringe who have taken full advantage of the internet, while genuine Christian bodies failed to do so, and still fail to do so.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

oh, absolutely. love a good discussion. i don't think anybody here has accused you of being the next pat robertson.

behold: http://www.patrobertson.com/

i can't look much cuz i just had breakfast and i don't wanna vomit. but check it out.

I understand.

Originally Posted by demonrail666

That's interesting. I've never been quite able to get my head around that concept. I read something by Chomsky recently where he was claiming himself as a left-libertarian but I couldn't really work out what he meant by it.

I remember reading that.

Left? Liberty? Together?

(and imagine a tears of laughter smiley)

[floatingslowly]

it's almost impossible to teach human-animals humility.

Jesus gave it his best shot.

so did MLK.

the system always destroys the best people; destroys and then subverts their images for global profits.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

it's almost impossible to teach human-animals humility.

Jesus gave it his best shot.

so did MLK.

the system always destroys the best people; destroys and then subverts their images for global profits.

so depressingly true

[Glice]

I'm fucking brilliant at humility. Seriously, I'd out-humil the lot of you.

[Hip Priest]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

it's almost impossible to teach human-animals humility.

Jesus gave it his best shot.

so did MLK.

the system always destroys the best people; destroys and then subverts their images for global profits.

Precisely.

Originally Posted by wellcharge

what kind of fuckup god would let a thread like this happen

The kind who allows free will.

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by Glice

I'm fucking brilliant at humility. Seriously, I'd out-humil the lot of you.

only humility (and the strong feeling that I would end up offending people) is preventing me from making a post comparing rich men, eyes of needles and yr nigh-impossible description of yr tinklenozzle.

have a sun-shiny day.

[Glice]

I remember this brilliant letter to Viz - "They say it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get into heaven. That's Cliff Richards fucked then".

[Hip Priest]

Originally Posted by Glice

I remember this brilliant letter to Viz - "They say it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get into heaven. That's Cliff Richards fucked then".

"Albert Einstein may have been a genius who invented the theory of relativity, but he's dead and I'm alive. So who's laughing now?"

That's my favourite Viz letter.

Of course, I think Einstein is laughing now, because he's in Heaven, so the point of the letter is kind of lost, but still.

[artsygrrl]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

I could give a fuck less if gay people get married. It affects me in no way.

I did not attack you because you are not a christian. I was making observations after reading through the thread.

And by the way you can tell a lot about a person's personal beliefs as well as age when they display them in posts. This is not the first of your posts I have read.

What does wtf mean? Why the fuss?

Where are your facts? I have a 4 year old fact that condoms break.

And how in the hell is abstinance teaching that being a homosexual is wrong? The episcipal church supports gay marriage and has gay preists.

And I know a few facts who now have STDs.

Happy new year. I'm goin home.

SONIC GAIL, you are so muthafucking RIGHT ON with this thread. YOU GO GIRL. check yr pms.

[pbradley]

I would say that laughing (and, as implied, living in the moment) isn't necessarily a superior position, particularly in the way of contributing to science.

@ hip priest's reply

[knox]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

I could give a fuck less if gay people get married. It affects me in no way.

I did not attack you because you are not a christian. I was making observations after reading through the thread.

And by the way you can tell a lot about a person's personal beliefs as well as age when they display them in posts. This is not the first of your posts I have read.

What does wtf mean? Why the fuss?

Where are your facts? I have a 4 year old fact that condoms break.



And how in the hell is abstinance teaching that being a homosexual is wrong? The episcipal church supports gay marriage and has gay preists.

And I know a few facts who now have STDs.

Happy new year. I'm goin home.

Oh yes, I missed this part. What are my personal beliefs and my age? This should be fun.

If you say I am pro- same sex marriage and the right to abort that DOES NOT COUNT because I stated that clearly.

[artsygrrl]

...In the spirit of this beautiful thread of religious harmony and acceptance...

[artsygrrl]

.....let us now take a short time-out.

[artsygrrl]

Pour a shot,
Fire up a doob,
Have sex,
Take a leisurely dump,
Do yoga,
Eat chocolate,
Walk outside and take a look up at the stars....

[knox]

it's ok i am not religious, i don't have to be accepting.

[artsygrrl]

...and we will meet back here when we can all treat each other with a bit more respect....

[artsygrrl]

....haha.........NOT

[artsygrrl]

best Bitch-slapping Thread Ever.

[knox]

it's not really that good?