[Severian]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

she was piggybacking off keshas claim

which may or may not be legit i dont know.

grimms isnt and those in this thread pretending otherwise or playing technicalities rather than admit they were wrong are despicable.

Ok, maybe I've missed something.

Can you please restate or specifically point to this supposed proof that Larkin is guilty of lying in this specific instance? Because if such a thing has been brought to light over the course of this conversation, I have not seen it.

Please, take the floor, humor me, and present me with how you know Larkin Grimm is lying.

There's a chance something was lost in the shuffle here, so let's clear this up.

Also, please remember neither SFAD nor I, nor anyone else are saying that she definitely IS NOT lying. We're saying as long as there's no way to know, there's no reason to assume she IS. But if we've missed it, let us know. Show us what you've got.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Also some folks here seem to think that because folks like rob and myself have very specifically defined rape somehow means we have definitively condemned Gira as guilty. Nope. Haven't. Rather we have been challenging some very misinformed views about what exactly does or would constitute sexual assault both in general and also if indeed Gira proves to be guilty or not.

[dead_battery]

its already been posted, most of the important stuff here but lots more elsewhere. you can go search it out yourself which is what anyone who wants to comment should have done in the first place. it's right there and this pretense there is some reason for doubt is getting tedious. she definitely lied like she lied about and admitted to lying about 3 other fabricated sexual assaults.

promoting the idea that she is not lying means you are saying gira is.

and btw, i will not be dragged around in circles about this for page after page so certain egos can prove themselves right. i am not repeating any of the points i've already made and will ignore requests to do so. and yes, gira has been condemned as guilty by rob and others in this thread who are pretending you didn't imply the same which is bs. please take the last word because that is the last thing you are getting from me on this.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

promoting the idea that she is not lying means you are saying gira is.

Except nobody has said definitively if she is lying or not. Neither has anyone said definitively that Gira is guilty of not. What at least I have been saying is we don't know enough to speak conclusively about either scenario so far.

[dead_battery]

lies.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

its already been posted, most of the important stuff here but lots more elsewhere. you can go search it out yourself which is what anyone who wants to comment should have done in the first place. it's right there and this pretense there is some reason for doubt is getting tedious. she definitely lied like she lied about and admitted to lying about 3 other fabricated sexual assaults.

Um. I'm the person who posted this thread, remember? I read every available account prior to doing so, and I have read everything since. So slow your roll there, buddy. I was actually backing you up at the beginning, until I realized that you weren't saying "my gut feeling is that she's lying," you were presuming to KNOW.

It doesn't matter if she's lied about other things. That's not a reason to not take her accusation seriously. Even if she were to admit that she lied about Gira, that wouldn't by any means prove that a rape never occurred.

I think you're really just not understanding where anyone is coming from here. I'm not saying she's not lying, and I'm not saying Gira's lying... I'm just flabbergasted by your insistence that you can be SURE that Gira is innocent. I would love for him to be innocent, but I'm not going to close myself off to the possibility that he isn't.

promoting the idea that she is not lying means you are saying gira is.

What? What? First off, nobody who's arguing with your cockamamie tirades is actually saying that Larkin is not lying. NOBODY IS SAYING SHE'S NOT LYING. How are you not getting this? You are the only one making a finite claim about this. All we're saying is that WE DON'T KNOW, and that it would be foolish and overly simplistic to jump to the conclusion that she is lying based on the purely anecdotal evidence in place. That doesn't mean we think Gira is! For Christ's sake man, if you're going to start a shitstorm, at least TRY to put some thought into things.

and btw, i will not be dragged around in circles about this for page after page so certain egos can prove themselves right. i am not repeating any of the points i've already made and will ignore requests to do so. and yes, gira has been condemned as guilty by rob and others in this thread who are pretending you didn't imply the same which is bs. please take the last word because that is the last thing you are getting from me on this.

I hope so. I have nothing against you personally, but I have to again wonder if you're even equipped to be involved in this conversation. It requires higher order thinking to weigh two sides of an unproven argument, and the only way to do it is to not jump to conclusions, and to consider the EXTREMELY COMPLEX societal and legal definitions of the terms that are on the table.

You are the only person who's claiming to know anything, and you're getting angry at everyone else for saying they don't know.

You act like we're all burning Michael Gira in effigy here. Not so. I personally hope the truth comes out and that his name is cleared, not only because I like the guy but I'd rather it be the case that a woman lied about being raped than that a woman actually was raped. I hope Larkin is lying, for her own sake! Rape is awful. I'd be delighted for everyone involved if she turned out to be lying.

But it's goddamn idiotic to pretend that you know the truth about this when the details might not even be known to Grimm and Gira.

Wake the fuck up!

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Except nobody has said definitively if she is lying or not. Neither has anyone said definitively that Gira is guilty of not. What at least I have been saying is we don't know enough to speak conclusively about either scenario so far.

This is what my stance has been as well, though I've peppered my comments with quite a bit more gut reactions and opinions than you have.

I think it's possible that we are being trolled. DB's not even making sense. He's basically accusing us all of being Gira lynchers who are blind to the obvious truth of the matter because of some hyper-liberal progressive predisposition to automatically believing the accuser. Yet nobody has claimed to believe anythjng or anyone except for DB.

[whorefrost]

A little late to the party; I only just heard about this. A few thoughts:

1. I've always worried something like this would happen to a band I like and then I'd be forced to re-evaluate whether I can still enjoy the music to the same extent. Imagine the same accusations that were levelled against for example Pete Townsend or the guy from Modest Mouse surfaced against a member of Sonic Youth.

2. It always alarms me how ready people are to leap to conclusions and pick sides in matters like this on the Internet. It's one persons word against another at this point and I've a feeling we'll probably never know the objective truth.

3. I'm also very alarmed by Larkin Grimm posting screenshots from a fictional book Gira wrote in the 90s and holding it up as some kind of evidence as a case against him. I find this troubling as hell in fact. By the same logic we could accuse Bret Easton Ellis of being a murderous yuppie or Nabakov of being a paedophile. In fact this line of logic to me feels like it leads on the dangerous road to censorship... maybe I'm getting carried away a bit here though. Curious to know what others think about this.

[dead_battery]

grimm constantly makes posts about her false accusations and then deletes them. one of the latest was a threat to go to the police if gira does not admit and apologize within a certain time limit, a post she has since deleted. she has indeed been using extracts from his lyrics and published works as the "evidence" she claims incriminates him.

she's a primitivist and calls herself a "prison abolitionist" yet is prepared to use the law to threaten others when she wants to - she's just too above everyone else to have to be SUBJECT to it of course.

you are correct in intuiting that she is stooping to the lowest form of slander and illogic in the idea that gira wrote stories about bad things and is therefore himself bad and is therefore guilty.

gira hasn't made any other public comment since the last one where he said he was consulting his lawyer. i assume he has wisely decided to let the lying slanderer exhaust herself and move on when the reserve of attention she can get out of this passes.

[Bytor Peltor]

Just now seeing that SuchFriends negative repped my post......

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

"I loved him more than I have loved just about anyone, but I did not want to have sex with him, and I made that very clear over and over."

Who was she making it clear to......Michael & his wife while being a guest in their house? To those in the recording studio?




"We were with Michael’s friends and they were drinking heavily and encouraging me to keep up with them. I’m a pretty lightweight drinker. At the end of the night it became obvious that I was too drunk to drive home, too drunk to even walk straight. Michael invited me to stay with his friends. They said they had a bed for me and that Michael would sleep on the floor. I trusted them and agreed.

At the apartment of Michael’s friends, I crawled into bed without changing my clothes or brushing my teeth. I just passed out. A little later Michael woke me up coughing."



Just because she was invited to keep drinking, why would she......especially for being such a "lightweight?"

Michael's coughing was enough to wake her up, yet someone removing her clothes enough to "insert" anything wasn't enough to disturb her slumber?

Rape is a serious thing and not to be taken lightly! Not enough evidence here to know who is telling the truth, but any decent defense attorney will have a field day with this!

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

Just now seeing that SuchFriends negative repped my post......

So? I didn't like your post. You literally said rape shouldn't be taken lightly while essentially taking an accusation of rape lightly. I neg repped a lot of posts on this thread

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

grimm constantly makes posts about her false accusations and then deletes them. one of the latest was a threat to go to the police if gira does not admit and apologize within a certain time limit, a post she has since deleted. she has indeed been using extracts from his lyrics and published works as the "evidence" she claims incriminates him.

she's a primitivist and calls herself a "prison abolitionist" yet is prepared to use the law to threaten others when she wants to - she's just too above everyone else to have to be SUBJECT to it of course.

you are correct in intuiting that she is stooping to the lowest form of slander and illogic in the idea that gira wrote stories about bad things and is therefore himself bad and is therefore guilty.

gira hasn't made any other public comment since the last one where he said he was consulting his lawyer. i assume he has wisely decided to let the lying slanderer exhaust herself and move on when the reserve of attention she can get out of this passes.

That's a good point and I wouldn't put it past her she's been lying about the whole thing. She seems to have a whole lot of personal problems with vanity that I sort of worked out by reading what she writes on the internet. To be honest, even if Michael Gira raped her for real, I'd still feel sorry but find her to be an incredibly lame human being.

[Bytor Peltor]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

So? I didn't like your post. You literally said rape shouldn't be taken lightly while essentially taking an accusation of rape lightly. I neg repped a lot of posts on this thread

I did no such thing!

Asking questions and pointing out that any good Lawyer would chop and dice her statements into doubt are just a few reasons I feel this never reaches a courtroom.

[dead_battery]

you did if the morally righteous person who automatically sides with someone who claims victimhood says you did bytor

[Bytor Peltor]

I am not free of guilt or sin and I didn't cast Judgement. YES, I was righteous in my question asking, using common sense thinking just as I would hope anyone else would do if such accusations were levied against me.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

you did if the morally righteous person who automatically sides with someone who claims victimhood says you did bytor

Haha you're hilarious. Still barking that imaginary nonsense?

"Blah blah woof woof" Jimi Hendrix

[dead_battery]

i stand by every word

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

i stand by every word

It only makes you look foolish but go ahead. The beauty of a public forum is everything is public and folks can read for themselves.

[Diesel]

Whatever happens the guy is still great in Scott Pilgrim VS. The World.