[PLips]

The reason Hillary never left Bill after Monica was because Hillary knew her blowjobs suck. Bill probably told her it was like getting head from a man, and to avoid the risk of turning gay in mid office, did what was right for America at the time.

[ilduclo]

Yeah, the "p's" are really pissing themselves here. I agree, I love the recount idea. I don't think it's going to overturn the election results, though. We need to send a guy back in time to provide birth control for old Mrs Comey...

Did anyone read David Brooks about "our need to empathize with the 'good Trump voters'?" If I wasn't mistaken, I think Mel Brooks wrote that satire...

[Severian]

Originally Posted by PLips

The reason Hillary never left Bill after Monica was because Hillary knew her blowjobs suck. Bill probably told her it was like getting head from a man, and to avoid the risk of turning gay in mid office, did what was right for America at the time.

This is not where you belong.

I'm not saying that to be a dick to you. I love your posts about being an obsessive Ween fan and fledgling animator. Love them. Seriously. But this is serious business, and yay free speech and all, but your jokes are not appropriate and I'd say largely unwelcome here.

[!@#$%!]

you mean this one?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/op...ning.html?_r=0

i just read it and i have to say i've agreed with that most of this season and you can look back at my previous posts to confirm

a lot of people have been left behind in the recovery and a lot others are just looking for change. and now we know that many of trump's voters used to be obama voters the previous times around.

so let's not put everyone in the same basket of despicables and make the same mistake hillary made when she said that.

brooks ends the piece by making a call for people to LISTEN. this is a good thing. cognitive closure and muleheadedness on both sides only polarize and destroy this country. let's go back to the 2004 obama speech and look for what the red and blue factions have in common.

this btw is not a call for capitulation. but come on-- you can't win a war without eyes and ears and a good understanding of your enemy's objectives and strategy.

and the best way to win is without fighting as sun-tzu wrote. so, start listening.

[ilduclo]

Brooks has been playing the fence on the deplorables for years. He's worn that crap out in my book. I think, at best, Dump voters are deeply ignorant. At worst, they are what we are saying.

http://driftglass.blogspot.com/2016/...-him-with.html

[evollove]

Yeah. The Daily Show came to my town for a Trump rally. Interviewed a dude who's supporting Trump because where was Obama on 9-11? Probably playing golf. How nice should I be to this person? How much time and effort should I spend trying to understand to this fellow's worldview?

Lumping every Trump supporter into one group and dismissing the whole may be unwise. But really, we're talking about tens of millions of voters. Lots of fuckwads in there and to deny that may be equally unwise. Go on a case-by-case basis, I guess.

[!@#$%!]

brooks is and has always been a conservative. but a reasonable one, which is why he's a fixture on the pbs news and not fox.

i really disagree with calling 62 million voters "deplorables". it's a fucked up move and hillary shot herself in the ass when she said that.

if you wanna continue with that line, it's definitely your right in a democracy. but i don't know where you think it's going to lead you. secession? it was attempted already in 1860, good luck with that this time around.

(but if you manage to secede i might just move there, ha ha ha )

[evollove]

She said "half" were deplorable, then apologized for using such a high number. Seems like a very uncontroversial and probably accurate statement.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by evollove

She said "half" were deplorable, then apologized for using such a high number. Seems like a very uncontroversial and probably accurate statement.

and what exactly did that get her? only further typecasting as the smug elitist liberal that hates "regular people"

i get the same feeling when my fellow liberals laugh at "the people or walmart"-- makes me wanna turn republican out of sheer spite. fortunately i have some self-control. but yeah.

read that brooks column

rinse, repeat

[Severian]

Originally Posted by evollove

Yeah. The Daily Show came to my town for a Trump rally. Interviewed a dude who's supporting Trump because where was Obama on 9-11? Probably playing golf. How nice should I be to this person? How much time and effort should I spend trying to understand to this fellow's worldview?

Lumping every Trump supporter into one group and dismissing the whole may be unwise. But really, we're talking about tens of millions of voters. Lots of fuckwads in there and to deny that may be equally unwise. Go on a case-by-case basis, I guess.

I can totally relate to this. In all honesty, I have not been able to find understanding or compassion for anyone I know who voted for Trump. They may have had reasons that were perfectly reasonable, but I have yet to hear evening one. When it comes to the "where was Obama on 9-11" level idiots, I feel like it would be unwise and dangerous to give them the benefit of the doubt, or to pretend that there's anything normal, relatable or acceptable about what they've done.

Hillary was right, and, if anything, going VERY easy on these people.

Sometimes people really are just totally fucked up. Trump voters are totally. fucked. up.

[Severian]

It may have been politically stupid for her to say that, but it was true enough, and anyone who was offended was already lost.

[evollove]

I agree with symbols that statements like

Originally Posted by Severian

Trump voters are totally. fucked. up.

is probably not going to make your life easier, aside from not being accurate.

But I feel like I'm being asked to swallow a lot of bullshit so I don't come off as a liberal elite.

In other words, I am somewhere between Severin's "fuck 'em all" attitude and symbols' "Can't we all get along?"

[!@#$%!]

im not saying "can we all get along." i'm saying liberals have to offer a good product and sell it to the customer and they're failing at both. if you're happy with stale formulas and only selling to yourself then continue what you're doing.

fuck the presidency-- take the house of representatives for the next 50 years.

okay i have some soccer to watch now-- that foreign, elitist un-american sport.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

im not saying "can we all get along." i'm saying liberals have to offer a good product and sell it to the customer and they're failing at both. if you're happy with stale formulas and only selling to yourself then continue what you're doing.

fuck the presidency-- take the house of representatives for the next 50 years.

okay i have some soccer to watch now-- that foreign, elitist un-american sport.

I agree with this, though I'm not sure I can get behind "fuck the presidency" after the Betsy DeVoss announcement. The president can do an extraordinary amount of damage, especially with full backing from the house and senate.

Betsy Fucking DeVoss. I just can't believe it. Any illusion that this idiot may have had an ounce of integrity or any intention at all to run the country in a responsible way has been completely snuffed out by his cabinet vetting. And I look back at the primaries and see him encouraging violence against dissenters and members of the press, and I think, "If you voted for this man, you are either monumentally stupid or certifiably insane." What the fuck are we supposed to do here? How are we supposed to interact with these people?

And yes, evollvove, I too am walking on eggshells to not sound like a liberal elite. To not sound OFFEND the people who proudly know nothing about their country or their candidate. I'm trying to be better, but those people aren't worried about offending me, or offending the minority groups they crapped on with their vote. Why are we expected to play nice here? Why are we being guilted into bringing a box of chocolates to a Fucking knife fight?

[ilduclo]

Originally Posted by Severian

And yes, evollvove, I too am walking on eggshells to not sound like a liberal elite. To not sound OFFEND the people who proudly know nothing about their country or their candidate. I'm trying to be better, but those people aren't worried about offending me, or offending the minority groups they crapped on with their vote. Why are we expected to play nice here? Why are we being guilted into bringing a box of chocolates to a Fucking knife fight?

agree. The solution to me appears to be education and a more honest media. I also think that the Dump voters, like the Shrub voters before them, will live to regret this and will vote better the next time around, after Dump has fucked things in the same way Shrub did.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Severian

I agree with this, though I'm not sure I can get behind "fuck the presidency" after the Betsy DeVoss announcement. The president can do an extraordinary amount of damage, especially with full backing from the house and senate.

Betsy Fucking DeVoss. I just can't believe it. Any illusion that this idiot may have had an ounce of integrity or any intention at all to run the country in a responsible way has been completely snuffed out by his cabinet vetting. And I look back at the primaries and see him encouraging violence against dissenters and members of the press, and I think, "If you voted for this man, you are either monumentally stupid or certifiably insane." What the fuck are we supposed to do here? How are we supposed to interact with these people?

And yes, evollvove, I too am walking on eggshells to not sound like a liberal elite. To not sound OFFEND the people who proudly know nothing about their country or their candidate. I'm trying to be better, but those people aren't worried about offending me, or offending the minority groups they crapped on with their vote. Why are we expected to play nice here? Why are we being guilted into bringing a box of chocolates to a Fucking knife fight?

you're bringing a knife to a gun fight is your problem

to the man with a hammer every problem is a nail is your problem

i.e. your "weapon" can't win shit

the goal is to persuade the voters to give a majority of votes in the electoral college to a candidate. and the states to elect democratic governors and legislatures and members of congress.

if your method is to proclaim your moral and intellectual superiority then good luck with that.

"hello i'm your regional pepsi salesman. i hear you prefer coke?"
"yeah i drink coke my daddy drank coke my granpappy drank coke, for generations"
"well sir you're clearly morally and intellectually inferior and you should stop drinking coke like a fucking redneck and buy pepsi and be enlightened"
"fuck you and the delivery truck you rode in"

you gotta give the people what they want-- not what you want. can't force them to like you.

as for fuck the presidency i meant-- the focus of democrats in elections. the narrow view. the last bastion of a losing war. wtf. will never win that way. to have the house is to have the nation. to have the senate is to have the nation. the presidency without congress is gelded.

[ilduclo]

Rude Pundit

"So, just to get this right, Democrats are supposed to make the effort to understand where the white working class is coming from. That's so goddamned patronizing.
No one is saying to the white working class, "Hey, you know what? Maybe you should try to understand what Democrats are trying to do."
It's like we're treating the white working class as if they're a long-lost tribe whose barbaric rituals we're studying instead of a group of fucking adults who know exactly what the fuck they're doing.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by ilduclo

Rude Pundit

"So, just to get this right, Democrats are supposed to make the effort to understand where the white working class is coming from. That's so goddamned patronizing.
No one is saying to the white working class, "Hey, you know what? Maybe you should try to understand what Democrats are trying to do."
It's like we're treating the white working class as if they're a long-lost tribe whose barbaric rituals we're studying instead of a group of fucking adults who know exactly what the fuck they're doing.

they were promised high paying service jobs after nafta and they got walmart greeter instead

now what were they offered by democrats in 2016? "soak the rich" (bernie) and "stronger together" (hillary--wtf does that mean). all explained in hillary's fancy words and dependent clauses and lawyer talk.

the repukes are so much better at framing the issues in simple terms. e.g.: a tax increase: "an attack on job creators". universal health care: "socialism." game, set, match.

go watch fox news-- i've been doing that lately. they lie through their fucking teeth, but they do it very well.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

they were promised high paying service jobs after nafta and they got walmart greeter instead

now what were they offered by democrats in 2016? "soak the rich" (bernie) and "stronger together" (hillary--wtf does that mean). all explained in hillary's fancy words and dependent clauses and lawyer talk.

the repukes are so much better at framing the issues in simple terms. e.g.: a tax increase: "an attack on job creators". universal health care: "socialism." game, set, match.

go watch fox news-- i've been doing that lately. they lie through their fucking teeth, but they do it very well.

Are you saying we should engage in unabashed hyperbole and manipulative lies? Not trying to be a dick, just asking.

The republicans are better at exploiting people's fears. They speak more directly, sure, but it's still all horseshit.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Severian

Are you saying we should engage in unabashed hyperbole and manipulative lies? Not trying to be a dick, just asking.

i'm saying learn to sell

Originally Posted by Severian

The republicans are better at exploiting people's fears. They speak more directly, sure, but it's still all horseshit.

getting people to switch from coke to pepsi is all horseshit-- it's a game of persuasion.

if you wanna write a dissertation with your arguments for switching, fine, but nobody is going to read it.

give the customer what they want sell it to them-- that's what winning elections boils down to.

"compassionate conservatism"

"terrist nucular nucular terrist"

"hope" "change"

"the 47% moocher class" (last year's despicables) - oooops

"#maga"

what do you have to sell and why is it good for me? can you tell me in an 8th-grade language?