This is interesting.

There was a bomb threat yesterday and a gun in our school today.

Oops. I guess we shouldn't have invaded Iraq.

Oops. I guess we shouldn't have elected George W. Bush to office.

Oops. I guess we should stop laughing at those less fortunate than us.

no no no no no no no and no!!!

the second amendment is not about what "the nuge" sez. it's NOT!!!!

K-KRACK: ted nugent will have you believe the u.s. constitution says that, but it doesn't. IT DOESN'T! he's confusing it with the individual right to self defense.

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i hate it when people ignore the obvious. for fuck's sakes.

this is the second amendment. it was originally not even fucking punctuated:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

the right to individual self-protection precedes the constitution and it didn't require a constitutional amendment, it is part of english common law & so it has always been followed in the united states.

the second amendment refers to the right of the states to keep militias in order to balance a central power. the u.s. constitution gives the federal government the power to raise a standing army & the states feared that. this amendment was a concession to those states.

i've said this 3-4 times & people voluntarily choose to ignore it.

conflating the right to individual self-protection with the 2nd amendment is wrong, misguided, and (eventually) wilfully ignorant.

ted nugent is good for singing wango tango & poontang sweet poontang but he's no intellectual & HIS INTERPRETATION OF THE 2ND AMENDMENT IS ON CRACK.

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Oops. I guess we should give a shit about our fellow human beings.

if you're going to try to be funny at least please have some success

I'm not trying to be funny. I'm trying to break your heart. I guess I'd be lying if I said it wasn't easy. But, I am trying to break your heart.

Thanks for the advice tho. I'm not fucking laughing.

neither am i. i have no heart. but your stupidity is annoying. upgrade already. say something funny or say something smart or shut the fuck up.

yes. the first amendment allows me to tell you to shut the fuck up.

Being European (Italian), I know I was raised in a different society which isn't necessarily better (there are so many problems in Europe as well, starting from racism and immigration), but I will never understand how people can believe that guns for everyone make their lives safer. The fact is that simply no one is really safe when everyone else can get a gun so easily. You can check people who buy guns all you want, but madmen and potential murderers can be identified and isolated so easily only in crappy TV "profiler" crime series. Yes, there are other weapons. Yes, you can even kill without a weapon. So the reasoning is, since there are other things to kill with, we might as well give them a gun?
I've heard and read people tell about how they believe making guns illegal would be dangerous because then only criminals would have guns. Well, I don't know - but that's the way it works in a lot of countries. If the police can't protect citizens, that's where the problem lies. I believe that in a modern country citizens shouldn't feel the need to defend themselves on their own - of course it's an ideal, but it is one that should be approached as closely as possible. Yes, you can get a gun (illegally) in all countries, but at least make it difficult, make it risky so that there's at least a chance they're caught before they act.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...rms-per-capita
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita

Statistics like these make me feel I would never consider myself safer in a country where firearms are legal and easy to buy. It takes a huge, bold step to get rid of guns, so it will probably never happen, but the way I see it from my perspective, it would really be worth it.

Yes, any discussion of the Second Amendment should properly begin with the fundamental point that there is, of course, no longer the same historical military need for a well-regulated militia anymore.

I sort of only alluded to this by just stating that the changes to the Second Amendment were "long overdue" in my first post. I didn't think I had to go into all this.
Glad you formally dropped that bomb, !@#$%!.

wrong wrong wrong.
not anyone can get a gun. the massacres that ahve taken place in the past decades have occurred, as the nuge says, in areas marked as NO GUN ZONES (schools, cafeterias etc). what the nuge states and what I agree with is that having armed people trained in the use of their weapons the death tool in these mass murders would be MUCH lower.

and do you REALLY believe that the police are here to protect the citizenry? in this day and age? How did the police protect the 29 or so people shot and killed two hours AFTER they had "deduced" that the first shooting was a domestic violence thing at Virginia Tech?
They are here to maintain the status quo, plain and simple.

but these so-called massacres you can count with your fingers, compared to the HUGE number of gun fatalities outside of these well-publicized hysteria-inducing episodes.

i'm not for banning guns by the way. i'm for a rational policy that does not put weapons in the hands of random jackasses.

Yes, 'they' wish to maintain the status quo...no doubt about it, Rob.

Law Enforcement wouldn't pay if they really were able to do their jobs and virtually clean-up most crime.

and criminals, and people who seek to do others harm, are not going to be swayed by ANY law. What about that do yo0u not understand? The violent ones are gonna be violent and get their guns on the black market and someone will make BIG BUCKS selling them these guns.

look at our war on drugs. the government has been implicated in several cocaine smuggling and heroin smuggling deals where they used the profits from impounded drugs sales to run. Iran Contra, air america was a smuggling operation, and there are many reports of the US government using offshore oil rigs to smuggle cocaine and heroin into the usa for sale.

I don;t trust any of those motherfuckers.

like I posted before, the number of gun fatalities in this country are dwarfed by drunk driving fatalities. How come when an inner city all black and hispanic school gets shot up by some idiot fuck and a dozen die the crux of the coverage is about how warped all the urban kids are and how they are thugs and have a thug culture, but when a college student kills other college students it is about the fact he used two handguns? this refers to the media of course.

Rob, how is it stupid for me to talk about causes and conditions of this massacre?

The fact is that society failed the kid. Society fails a lot of kids. People need to wake up to the fact that they have responsibilities as human beings.

So. Why don't you shut the fuck up until you have something intelligent to say?

And by the way, I'm not a jester, and I'm not a clown. I do not feel like making people laugh right now.

ROB:

the u.s. has a much higher level of gun violence than the u.k., true or not?

answer man, answer.


the 2nd amendment is not about the individual right to self defense. true or not?

answer man, answer.

the gun issue doesn't have to be black & white. it doesn't have to be "everybody get a gun" vs. "nobody has a gun". there is an option to regulate without banning. true or not?

answer man, answer.

but answer.

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oops! looks like you WERE answering. but can you still answer the questions above?

you know, the drunk driving problem is a huge issue and you strong laws against it. i'm not opposed to putting a breathalizer in every car, actually.

of course you can theorize-- "well, what if you're in a drunken party and suddenly guns break out and your designated driver gets shot & they are chasing you and you must flee but your car won't start because of the breathalizer" ?? well shit anything can happen...

dadydlikes I never called you stupid. I referred to the denial by people f the true horror of this, of how we produce more sociopaths and psychopaths and people who just do not give a flying fuck about LIFE, teir own or anyone elses. That is the true issue, not the availability of guins.

howvere the gun issue is EASY. it is comfy, one can just scream "NO GUNS FOR ANYONE!"
easy answerr right? wrong answer I say.

the UK has a higher rate of violent crime of all types than the us, EXCEPT homicides and suicides. I already posted this and you can check the data

Perhaps everyone needs to watch the movie "Higher Learning".

Singleton made a poignant movie that time.

the second amendment is NOT about self defense. I agree.
however, regardless f the reason for the granting of us the right to have arms, the granting is still what is important. the reason change. we have a standing army now, an abomination to the founding fathers, who knew a nation with a standing army has to have somethinbg for the army to do, leading down the slippery slope of tyranny.

i never said ti was an easy topic or an easy decision.

yes but as i stated above i'd rather have my wallet taken than my life. i'd rather lose $100 than be shot.

and if someone burglarizes my car, the insurance loses. i only get a rental for a while.

what about the other 2 questions?

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edit: sorry, you are answering the other 2 questions. damn asynchronous internet...

hm no, the federalists were in favor of the standing army as outlined in the constitution. it was the anti-federalist southern states that opposed it.

my request then is that in this debate about SELF DEFENSE we leave the 2nd amendment out, because that just confuses the issues.

i'm in favor of licensed guns for self defense.

So, what are we left with?

In my mind, we're left with legitimate hunters and homeowners, for professionals like security guards or bounty hunters, and in some cases, guns for personal self-defense for taxpaying head of households. and I agree that their should be mandatory training. The gun licenses should be a relatively uniform procedure in every state and require training and periodic license renewal. The database should be concurrent with NCIC and all mental health data available from various other sources. I'd give the plan about five years of statistical analysis.

If the above didn't solve much of the problem, I advocate that the Federal Government establish a month-long waiting period in which the potential gun owner surrenders their Fourth Amendment search and seizure rights over to allow the police to search their residence and private property at random at any time during the waiting period.
The intention would be to provide the most accurate possible psychologicial profile of the potential gun owner via on-site inspection of their residence and property.

We must stiffen the penalties and make the laws against illegal sale of fireams airtight against loopholes. The required amount of money to actively enforce the tougher laws should be paid for by taxing gun manufacturers and importers. In addition, there should be a ceiling placed on gun manufacturer's prices, to insure that the black market not necessarily increase due to the new legislation, and to guarantee that it will force the gun makers to really pay for their crimes against humanity.

As for capital crimes involving first degree homicides, perhaps we are nearing the day where speedy executions for violators that are convicted based on RFLP DNA evidence are indicated. The policy would be subject to state review every five years and the hope would be that individual states could possibly one day implement a more civilized policy and ultimately abolish the death penalty if the deterrent were successful enough.

why is everyone ignoring Tesla69's comments???

Because he's Tesla69.

Why is this i wonder?

Sgt. Alvin C. York was the most decorated individual US Soldier in WWI. Subject of the top grossing movie of 1941, He was credited with capturing 138 German soldiers nearly single handedly by flanking a Machine gun nest, and killing its occupants. The Machine gun in question may be destroyed because the library that owns it does not have a proper license.
posted by Gungho

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ridiculous

An average of 81 people die of gunshot wounds in the US each day. Most of them aren't who you'd expect.
posted by alms

graphic from today's The New York Times

Holy crap, I'm in the biggest suicide by bullet group!

^Is that per day atari?
Hmm. The caucasian suicide rate rises sharply as the years go by.
I wonder what the european statistics are. We don't have easy access to guns in Europe, but we have quite a high rate of suicides by jumping in front of a trains. Holland alone has something like 30 per year.

It's estimated that somewere around one million people in the world commit suicide every year.
read more...

I got "ignored" by Atari so I think that means he doesn't see my comments. He's such a Stalinist these days anyway, who cares...much of the rest of the board just hates me for whatever reason. Maybe because I'm so good looking and virile. well, I've been fighting dumbies all my life. nothing new.

Thetre is some really interesting disucssion at this blog. I have to look again buit someone in the comments mention a third mass shooting in the area in the past years..

http://dreamsend.wordpress.com/2007/...secret-school/
However, I do think it is quite reasonable to assume that Cho had experienced some fairly serious abuse. His writings and statements, disjointed as they are, focus very much on this abuse. For some reason, no one is asking many questions about that. Nor does anyone seem to be asking questions about why Cho’s high school has produced TWO psychotic young adults who went on gun rampages within one year of each other. Last May, Michael Kennedy, a student at Westfield High School in Chantilly, Virginia, went on a shooting rampage at a police station, killing two police officers before being fatally shot himself. Authorities consider this just a “horrible coincidence”. Adding to the coincidence is that Michael’s father, Brian Kennedy, was just recently released from jail in charges related to that killing. In fact, he was due in court the day after the Cho killings.

coincidence my ass.

apparently 4 parents of the victims at VT all worked at the same hospital as well.

Wow I don't fit that suicide thing. One is a minority.