[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by fugazifan

actually people still view goldstein as a hero...
as i was saying every one is an asshole
great post btw

yeah i edited to mention his worshippers. that yigal amir cunt who killed rabin was one of them.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i tend to stay out of these threads because they are useless.

A wise move.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

anyway. there are assholes on both sides. there always have been. differential death counts don't imply differential culpability. they simply mean one side is better at war than the other.

It actually makes me quite happy that you wrote this sentiment and also wrote it well. The two are rarely married here.

[racehorse]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i tend to stay out of these threads because they are useless. yet at some point i read so much shit i develop an itch i must scratch. i spent almost a year in israel in the 90s and saw lots of things. while i love israel i could see many things wrong with it and with the likud in power many many things went to shit.

HOWEVER.

i turn on the news the other day after that asshole killed those 8 religious students, and they show images of palestinian streets-- people driving around honking in celebration of the murders. that is utterly fucked up.

when that lunatic fuck baruch goldstein massacred a bunch of palestinians in a mosque in hebron, people didn't take to the streets to celebrate. (of course some right wing lunatics consider him a hero-- fuckers)

anyway. there are assholes on both sides. there always have been. differential death counts don't imply differential culpability. they simply ean one side is better at war than the other.

i wonder how many israelies would view 1948 as a year to be celebrated?
remember that in this year a million innocent palestinians were either murdered or forcably evicted at gunpoint. this is widely hailed as a victory for the israelis.
i also think it would be interesting to, say, go to a small mid-western town in the usa and stand on the street with a big sign saying "honk to show your support for our boys in the iraq war", of which there have been a total of 600,000 casualties so far. you wouldn't be able to hear yourself think for the honking.

[racehorse]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

anyway. there are assholes on both sides. there always have been. differential death counts don't imply differential culpability. they simply mean one side is better at war than the other.

not better at war. one side is better funded by the american government (which incidently gives more aid to israel than the entire african continent).

the fact that there is a death count at all implies that in the past one side aggrevated another.

the facts show that one side is responsible for the root of this conflict, and if people don't agree on the culprits then it becomes impossible to talk about this properly.

seriously, i think that if you take away the swamp you get rid of the mosquitos.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by racehorse

certainly no easy answer at all, but then i don't think that suchfriendsaredangerous is in any way proposing one, or insinuating that there is one.
it is, however, much easier and effective if we look at this empirically - use the facts in relation to each other and abandon knee jerk, ideologically-founded reactions. read the work of external scholars, never read the media. look at death counts, and look at the history of failed negotiations and discover why they failed.

gets it, clearly.