[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

UN alarm at Gaza-Israel violence

 

Arbour called on those who killed civilians to be made accountable

A senior UN official, Louise Arbour, has expressed alarm at the magnitude of violence committed by both sides in the Gaza Strip and Israel.
The High Commissioner for Human Rights also criticised Israel's "disproportionate use of force".
She said the protection of civilian lives and human rights "cannot await the outcome of a political process".
On Monday Israel ended a major offensive in which more than 120 Palestinians were killed.
The Israelis say the incursion was aimed at stopping rocket fire into Israel by Palestinian militants.

 

 

I repeat my condemnation of the rocket attacks by Palestinian militants against Israeli civilian targets, as well as of the Israel Defence Forces' disproportionate use of force

 

Louise Arbour


Two Israeli soldiers and an Israeli civilian were also killed over roughly the same period.
Speaking at a session of the UN's Human Rights Council, Ms Arbour called on Israeli and Palestinian authorities to investigate civilian killings and to make sure perpetrators were held accountable.
"I repeat my condemnation of the rocket attacks by Palestinian militants against Israeli civilian targets, as well as of the Israel Defence Forces' disproportionate use of force," she said.
At the council session Pakistan submitted a resolution on behalf of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference calling for an "immediate cessation of all Israeli military attacks throughout the occupied Palestinian territory and the firing of crude rockets by Palestinian combatants".
Dugard report
The UN Security Council on Sunday condemned the violence in Gaza.
The council had been due to hear a report by UN special rapporteur John Dugard on the human rights situation in the occupied territories. This was delayed due to scheduling problems until the council's next session in June.
In the report, which was put on the council's website last week, Mr Dugard argues that acts of terrorism committed by Palestinians are an "inevitable consequence" of the Israeli occupation.
"While such acts cannot be justified, they must be understood as being a painful but inevitable consequence of colonialism, apartheid or occupation," Mr Dugard writes.
He argues that a distinction must also be made between what the report calls the mindless terror of al-Qaeda and acts committed in a war against military occupation.
The report says violence will continue as long as Israel occupies Palestinian land, and that Israel cannot, therefore, set peace as a precondition for ending its occupation. Israel has rejected the report as biased.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

The groups say a battered, starved Gaza cannot be a peace partner
Conditions in Gaza Gaza's humanitarian situation is at its worst since Israel occupied the territory in 1967, say UK-based human rights and development groups.
They include Amnesty International, Save the Children, Cafod, Care International and Christian Aid.
They criticise Israel's blockade on Gaza as illegal collective punishment which fails to deliver security. Israel says its military action and other measures are lawful and needed to stop rocket attacks from Gaza.



Israel pulled its troops and settlers out of the Gaza Strip in 2005, but retains control over Gaza's airspace and coastline, and over its own border with the territory.


It tightened its blockade in January amid a surge in rocket attacks by Palestinian militants in Gaza.
Israel's Defence Ministry rejected the criticism in the report, blaming the Hamas militant group which controls Gaza.
"The main responsibility for events in Gaza is the Hamas organisation, to which all complaints should be addressed," a statement read.
'Disaster'
The groups' report, Gaza Strip: A Humanitarian Implosion, says the blockade has dramatically worsened levels of poverty and unemployment, and has led to deterioration in education and health services.

GAZA REPORT
More than 80% of population rely on humanitarian aid
Unemployment about 40%
No running water for 25-30% of Gazans


More than 1.1 million Gazans are dependent on food aid and of 110,000 workers previously employed in the private sector, 75,000 have now lost their jobs, the report says.
"Unless the blockade ends now, it will be impossible to pull Gaza back from the brink of this disaster and any hopes for peace in the region will be dashed," said Geoffrey Dennis, of Care International UK.
Last week Israeli forces launched a bloody and destructive raid in northern Gaza, in which more than 120 Palestinians - including many civilians - were killed.
Israel says the measures are designed to stamp out frequent rocket fire by Palestinian militants.
Recent rocket attacks have hit deeper into southern Israel, reaching Ashkelon, the closest large Israeli city to the Gaza Strip.
Occupying power
The UK-based groups agree that Israel has the right and obligation to protect its citizens, urging both sides to cease unlawful attacks on civilians.




But they call upon Israel to comply with its obligations, as the occupying power in Gaza, to ensure its inhabitants have access to food, clean water, electricity and medical care, which have been in short supply in the strip.
"Punishing the entire Gazan population by denying them these basic human rights is utterly indefensible," said Amnesty UK Director Kate Allen.
"The current situation is man-made and must be reversed."
Other recommendations from the groups include international engagement with the Hamas movement, which rejects Israel's legitimacy and has been shunned by Israel's allies, and the Fatah party of Palestinian West Bank leader Mahmoud Abbas.
"Gaza cannot become a partner for peace unless Israel, Fatah and the Quartet [the US and UN, Europe and Russia] engage with Hamas and give the people of Gaza a future," said Daleep Mukarji of Christian Aid.

[fugazifan]

what a bunch of horseshit. even your thread title left out half of the sentence about palestine "I repeat my condemnation of the rocket attacks by Palestinian militants against Israeli civilian targets, as well as of the Israel Defence Forces' disproportionate use of force"
and there are no more israelis living in gaza, but the military must stay, you know why, because people in sderot get bombed weekly if there arent. israel made the first step by evacuating all israelis from gaza years ago and the only thing that it caused was the bombs get deeper into israel.
once again i m more against the occupation than most and i agree that it has to stop, but they are not the only victim.
your life must be very easy to see everything half blindly. its a shame....

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

interesting how Israel results to third world tactics of military violence and pummels Gaza with crushing military force time and time again, and yet as in third world civil wars, it does nothing to solve the problem. the problem is that people in gaza live in stark third world conditions of absolute poverty and degradation, while the Israelis prosper in the peak of modernism. This third-world-middle-ages tactic of brutish force and besiegement is simply unacceptable, and is only bound to produce more and more violence. This is what happens on them micro-scale in urban violence like here in Los Angeles. When the police react with force and violence to gang violence across the city, then gang violence only increases, thriving in an environment of fear, anxiety, and desperation. On the other hand, when you go straigh to the source of violence to begin with [ie, poverty, eduction, disenfranchisement] and reestablish agency in the community, from the bottom up, from the youth to the seniors, then you see the community develop from within and the violence decreases. In this city, violence varries from block to block. on set of streets will be surprisingly middle-class suburb america just walking distance from third world violence. these are the same streets of the same city.

if the Israeli tactics of force and violence are replaced with more positive and productive measures, then perhaps the israelis will solve their problem of insecurity. it seems obvious to me, that if you blow a bunch of shit up, and lay siege against the people, condemning the innocent and guilty alike, Israel is only bound to create more and more enemies with the youth. if these youth could grow up in a positive environment, of developing conditions rather then worsening, with proper schools and housing, themselves removed from the constant fear of violence and death anxiety (this same anxiety which causes urban violence in american streets, a sullen sense of hopelessness, and a "fuck it" mentality, which scarface raps "and with that fucked up attitude he killed his first man") then they will not perpetuate violence against israel. this is precisely why tit-for-tat politics do not work. solve the problem, do not create several more.

[fugazifan]

i agree with you 100%! but there are two sides. israel is still defending itself, and gaza is still run by a terrorist organization thats main goal is not to better the palestinian people but to destroy israel. so its kind of fucked up. both sides are in the wrong, and it takes two to tango.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by fugazifan

what a bunch of horseshit. even your thread title left out half of the sentence about palestine "I repeat my condemnation of the rocket attacks by Palestinian militants against Israeli civilian targets, as well as of the Israel Defence Forces' disproportionate use of force"
and there are no more israelis living in gaza, but the military must stay, you know why, because people in sderot get bombed weekly if there arent. israel made the first step by evacuating all israelis from gaza years ago and the only thing that it caused was the bombs get deeper into israel.
once again i m more against the occupation than most and i agree that it has to stop, but they are not the only victim.
your life must be very easy to see everything half blindly. its a shame....

you just dont get it do you. it is not that Israelis should disappear from gaza. it is not that the israelis did not have the justification to use some sort of force in retaliation against the palestinians for the rocket attacks, the fucking whole shit is that the israelis did NOT have the right to use such excessive force that over ONE HUNDRED palestinians were killed in response to rocket attacks which killed four people. this is not to make light of the Israeli losses, it is just pathetic that such a modern country and well organized military has to result to such brutish force in retaliation. it was unnecessary. further, read my above post for suggestions.

Originally Posted by fugazifan

i agree with you 100%! but there are two sides. israel is still defending itself, and gaza is still run by a terrorist organization thats main goal is not to better the palestinian people but to destroy israel. so its kind of fucked up. both sides are in the wrong, and it takes two to tango.

if the israeli military launches attacks that kill 100 civilians, then they are by definitions fucking terrorists. terror is to target civilians and noncombatants with military force. in this regard israel, the united states, and to show you i am not as biased as you might think, even Ethiopia is guilty of being run by terrorists. so lets get that out of the way.

[floatingslowly]

fugazifan LIVES in Israel, I bet he 'gets it' pretty well.

[Florya]

Let's face it, no matter what atrocities Israel commits in defence of its illegal settlers, the most that they will ever get is a mild rebuke from the UN.

I have my own theory as to why this is, but I won't go into it in detail. Let's just say it has to do with the religious right and their obsession with 'The Rapture'

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

fugazifan LIVES in Israel, I bet he 'gets it' pretty well.

obviously not. He might see it more directly then I do, but that does not automatically means he gets it. most people here in my city do not know a fucking thing about the "ghetto" or the gang culture and violence, and they are especially ignorant of the police brutality, and yet regardless of their ignorance such things exist.

I have not been trying to attack fugazifan personally, I have just been posting news and my interpretations of it. further, I see my positive suggestions for Gaza went unread, maybe I should repost them added emphasis:


interesting how Israel results to third world tactics of military violence and pummels Gaza with crushing military force time and time again, and yet as in third world civil wars, it does nothing to solve the problem. the problem is that people in gaza live in stark third world conditions of absolute poverty and degradation, while the Israelis prosper in the peak of modernism. This third-world-middle-ages tactic of brutish force and besiegement is simply unacceptable, and is only bound to produce more and more violence. This is what happens on them micro-scale in urban violence like here in Los Angeles. When the police react with force and violence to gang violence across the city, then gang violence only increases, thriving in an environment of fear, anxiety, and desperation. On the other hand, when you go straigh to the source of violence to begin with [ie, poverty, eduction, disenfranchisement] and reestablish agency in the community, from the bottom up, from the youth to the seniors, then you see the community develop from within and the violence decreases. In this city, violence varries from block to block. on set of streets will be surprisingly middle-class suburb america just walking distance from third world violence. these are the same streets of the same city.

if the Israeli tactics of force and violence are replaced with more positive and productive measures, then perhaps the israelis will solve their problem of insecurity. it seems obvious to me, that if you blow a bunch of shit up, and lay siege against the people, condemning the innocent and guilty alike, Israel is only bound to create more and more enemies with the youth. if these youth could grow up in a positive environment, of developing conditions rather then worsening, with proper schools and housing, themselves removed from the constant fear of violence and death anxiety (this same anxiety which causes urban violence in american streets, a sullen sense of hopelessness, and a "fuck it" mentality, which scarface raps "and with that fucked up attitude he killed his first man") then they will not perpetuate violence against israel. this is precisely why tit-for-tat politics do not work. solve the problem, do not create several more.

[fugazifan]

i think i get it pretty well. i have said over and over again that i do not agree with what they do. and that they do kill too many innocent people, but one has to see that the palestinians are also at fault. their terorists are civilians and hide in densly populated areas. so they are basically holding the entire civilians of gaza up as a human sheild and baiting israel. unfortunatly israel is suckered into attacking and the shit hits the fans. my whole point is that itss fucked and everybody is in the wrong. if one doesnt understand that then he does not 'get it'

[racehorse]

the contemporary stance of hizbu'llah and the great majority of other arab leaders is certainly not, as you say, to "destroy israel". hizbu'llah is clearly anti-zionist, a rejector of the state of israel, and would gladly, in an ideal world, replace it with an islamic theocracy however, in these situations you will often find ideologies being sacrificed for the benefit of the people. the current position of hizbu'llah is that they have accepted the two-state solution based on pre-1967 borders if that is what the arabs want. this solution recurringly finds majority support amongst the israelies.
currently, arab leaders have become doubtful as to the legitamacy of the currently debated "bi-national proposal" as it differs to the pre-1967 map to such an extent that it turns the so-called "sovereign" state of palestine into a mesh of barbed wire, blockades, shriking boundaries and checkpoints - you could say that israel wants to create the largest prison the world has ever seen. as a result, arab leaders have become naturally dissatisfied with the way the two-state solution is panning out.
arab leaders have almost always been open to negotiations but they are naturally beginning to loose faith due to the fact that they are almost always masterminded by israel and thus break down due to israel's refusal to compromise over its harsher than harsh land proposals.

of course, the nature of islamic fundamentalist ideology muddies these waters considerably, but all things considered the fact that israel kills 100 arabs for 4 israelis shows that israel really has very little leg to stand on. if israel would only accept the green line proposalwe would be on the road to peace.

[fugazifan]

i never said anything about the hezballa, i said those who control palestine-the hamas.
and you are right we fuck up a lot. but a few years ago barak offered arafat an amazing deal and he declined, without even giving a reason...

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by fugazifan

i think i get it pretty well. i have said over and over again that i do not agree with what they do. and that they do kill too many innocent people, but one has to see that the palestinians are also at fault. their terorists are civilians and hide in densly populated areas. so they are basically holding the entire civilians of gaza up as a human sheild and baiting israel.

still not getting it.

[racehorse]

camp david? the reason arafat refused the camp david proposals was that it would be turning palestine into a completely nonviable, parody of a state consisting of three non-contiguous "prisons" - three bantustans rendered inaccessable to one another due to the road blockades imposed on them by israel in the negev desert. what you also fail to mention is that arafat then gladly accepted to continue the talks at taba, a continuation of camp david, and israel refused out-right.

[fugazifan]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

still not getting it.

you didnt quote my whole post are youn intentionally trying to disagree with me
how is me saying that there are two sides at fault me not getting it?
if you lived maybe you would get how fucked up it is here with no easy answer, until then you can continue distorting my posts to prove your points

[racehorse]

certainly no easy answer at all, but then i don't think that suchfriendsaredangerous is in any way proposing one, or insinuating that there is one.
it is, however, much easier and effective if we look at this empirically - use the facts in relation to each other and abandon knee jerk, ideologically-founded reactions. read the work of external scholars, never read the media. look at death counts, and look at the history of failed negotiations and discover why they failed.

[fugazifan]

i agree. the only thing that i have been trying to prove is that israel is not the only reason for this situation

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by fugazifan

i agree. the only thing that i have been trying to prove is that israel is not the only reason for this situation

i tend to stay out of these threads because they are useless. yet at some point i read so much shit i develop an itch i must scratch. i spent almost a year in israel in the 90s and saw lots of things. while i love israel i could see many things wrong with it and with the likud in power many many things went to shit.

HOWEVER.

i turn on the news the other day after that asshole killed those 8 religious students, and they show images of palestinian streets-- people driving around honking in celebration of the murders. that is utterly fucked up.

when that lunatic fuck baruch goldstein massacred a bunch of palestinians in a mosque in hebron, people didn't take to the streets to celebrate. (of course some right wing lunatics consider him a hero-- fuckers)

anyway. there are assholes on both sides. there always have been. differential death counts don't imply differential culpability. they simply mean one side is better at war than the other.

[fugazifan]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i tend to stay out of these threads because they are useless. yet at some point i read so much shit i develop an itch i must scratch. i spent almost a year in israel in the 90s and saw lots of things. while i love israel i could see many things wrong with it and with the likud in power many many things went to shit.

HOWEVER.

i turn on the new the other day after that asshole killed those 8 religious students, and they show images of palestinian streets-- people driving around honking in celebration of the murders. that is utterly fucked up.

when that lunatic fuck baruch goldstein massacred a bunch of palestinians in hebron, people didn't take to the streets to celebrate.

anyway. there are assholes on both sides. there always have been. differential death counts don't imply differential culpability. they simply mean one side is better at war than the other.

actually people still view goldstein as a hero...
as i was saying every one is an asshole
great post btw

[Everyneurotic]

You must spread some fundamentalist rationality around before giving it to !@#$%! again.