[E. Noisefield]

Man, ATL might even be my favorite, really. I can't say. Sister is a 10, an A+, but ATL has a better ending. Sister obviously has a better beginning though

"IT'S JUST A KITTEEEENNNNNN!!" lol

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by E. Noisefield

I totally get what you guys are saying. They changed quite dramatically in the '90s. The change may not have been altogether pleasant for fans of the spacey, unsettling, unhinged sound of their early stuff. I myself have even thought, at times, that '90s SY *just isn't SY*. It's a completely different beast.

To make sense of all of these changes, I started thinking about SY differently. I started thinking of them based on the standards of classic "pop". I started equating them, in my head, to bands like the Beatles. I know they're absolutely nothing alike, but if you view their '90s output as just once facet of the whole, then it just makes them seem all the more dynamic and eclectic. Even the Beatles had "shitty" records ("shitty" for the Beatles still being far better than average) like Magical Mystery Tour, where they just got lost for a bit in the sensation they'd created. Imagine Dirty as SY's MMT.

Then '00s SY is another matter altogether. They became something different all over again. So we've got the post-hardcore art-noise SY, the alterna-grunge SY, and the "godfathers of indie" SY who just jammed and had fun like the grateful dead.

Having all of these archetypes in one is like having the leather-coat, Liverpool pub Beatles, the perfect-pop band Beatles, the psychedelic Beatles, and the frustrated, angsty,"grown-up" Beatles shown on the White Album and Let it Be and Abbey road. I know comparing the two is a stretch, but SY is so BIG for me that I can literally think of them as three (maybe four if you count the SYR SY) bands in one, and that is an exciting thought! It helps me appreciate even their worst moments. Besides, like I said, Goo is a perfect transition from DDN into more mainstream alternative.

Personally I think "Sister" is their best album, and I'm definitely more inclined to think of their'80s output when considering my favorite albums ever. But there is gold all over their catalog. I honestly, when I think hard about it, can't tell you which SY is my favorite! The '80s, obviously the best track record. But the '90s yielded ATL, which is one of my favorite albums ever made, and the '00s had Murray Street and SN and RR and tons of incredible SYR material. So I don't even know which "version" of the band I like best, but that's ok with me.

You make some great points there, even if I don't necessarily agree with the core comparison which, to be fair you also acknowledge as being a bit of a 'stretch'. I don't want to come across as dismissing SY's post 80s output. Some of it I think is excellent. It just doesn't capture my imagination the way LPs like CiS, BMR, etc, did and, to an extent, still do. I think Murmer got it spot on when describing a certain nightmarish quality to those records. There's a strange bum trip campfire quality to songs like Halloween, Shaking Hell, Brother James, etc, which I think they pretty much abandoned quite early on. I can see why they moved on from that and in many ways respect them even more for doing so but I still think of those songs as the reason why I got into them in the first place and sort of became increasingly distant from them as a band the further they moved on from that template. But that's my problem, ultimately, not theirs.

[E. Noisefield]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

You make some great points there, even if I don't necessarily agree with the core comparison which, to be fair you also acknowledge as being a bit of a 'stretch'. I don't want to come across as dismissing SY's post 80s output. Some of it I think is excellent. It just doesn't capture my imagination the way LPs like CiS, BMR, etc, did and, to an extent, still do. I think Murmer got it spot on when describing a certain nightmarish quality to those records. There's a strange bum trip campfire quality to songs like Halloween, Shaking Hell, Brother James, etc, which I think they pretty much abandoned quite early on. I can see why they moved on from that and in many ways respect them even more for doing so but I still think of those songs as the reason why I got into them in the first place and sort of became increasingly distant from them as a band the further they moved on from that template. But that's my problem, ultimately, not theirs.

I definitely understand. When bands shift or change styles it's hard to view their new styles objectively, and not just see the absence of the old style.

But, funnily enough, I think their biggest change, and the one that lead to all the others, was from the twisted nightmare of Sister to the pristine daydream of... well... Daydream lol!

[E. Noisefield]

Originally Posted by E. Noisefield

I definitely understand. When bands shift or change styles it's hard to view their new styles objectively, and not just see the absence of the old style.

But, funnily enough, I think their biggest change, and the one that lead to all the others, was from the twisted nightmare of Sister to the pristine daydream of... well... Daydream lol!

Not that Sister was a nightmare obviously. It's their best album, and is perfect from the intro of "Schizophrenia" to "Chic-ch-chiconne!"

[Severian]

People would probably at least rethink less of me of they knew exactly how much I love the Cure. I don't think many could sit through Join the Dots in its entirety without losing their heads. To me its just nostalgic pornography.

[Mortte Jousimo]

I think it´s quite common in the music world today (maybe it has been there always) that many music fans can´t stand it that their idols become mature and change. I have always been totally opposite, I have always been interested the whole career of artists. Of course there are also my favourite artists that turn to something boring (for example Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rush, Genesis) but there are also artists that in my opinion stay fresh even they become kind of mature comparing their early days (SY, Nick Cave) and some become even more "aggressive" (Tom Waits). I think it is kind of sad, if people can´t stand the artist becoming mature at all, maybe it´s the common phenomeniun in these days culture, I mean that people want to stay young forever? But of course, people can live the way they want.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by gmku

I auditioned it one time when I was thinking of buying it. I didn't like it at all. They were really done by this time.

Ok, have to check those early records sometime.

[Murmer99]

I see what you're saying. I wasn't implying that at all with sonic youth though... I still think it's a great thing that they didn't just become dull and repetitive. You never know what to except with them. That alone should earn everyones respect. Also, they're a band I'd follow (yeah... kind hard to do that now!) and support no matter what. I'm sure most people have a handful of artists whom they're "loyal" to regardless of the changes that are made. It's merely a matter of preference here. They went through different phases therefore there will be various reactions that are distinctive from one another. Most of their 90s-00s work was solid, but there were a few disappointments and the only one I'd consider great is Nurse. I don't know... I certainly don't despise "change" at all.

[EVOLghost]

Originally Posted by E. Noisefield

Man, ATL might even be my favorite, really. I can't say. Sister is a 10, an A+, but ATL has a better ending. Sister obviously has a better beginning though

"IT'S JUST A KITTEEEENNNNNN!!" lol

ATL is my 2nd fave. after EVOL.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Severian

People would probably at least rethink less of me of they knew exactly how much I love the Cure. I don't think many could sit through Join the Dots in its entirety without losing their heads. To me its just nostalgic pornography.

I like a lot Bloodfowers, The Cure and 4:13 dream albums!

[E. Noisefield]

Originally Posted by Severian

People would probably at least rethink less of me of they knew exactly how much I love the Cure. I don't think many could sit through Join the Dots in its entirety without losing their heads. To me its just nostalgic pornography.

Hey now, tiger! That's nothing to be ashamed of! Take it from a former Bauhaus tee wearing goth girl. *mmwuah!*

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by E. Noisefield

Hey now, tiger! That's nothing to be ashamed of! Take it from a former Bauhaus tee wearing goth girl. *mmwuah!*

I still love also Bauhaus!

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

I still love also Bauhaus!

We all do, friend. But they're different and have an undeniable subculture cred that the Cure, chart topping pop confectioners that they are, simply lack. At least that seems to be how the "elite" see it.

Me, I'm not one to abide musical elitism. But I'd probably get a slug in the gut from my mates of they knew how often I listen to kiss me kiss me kiss me.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Severian

We all do, friend. But they're different and have an undeniable subculture cred that the Cure, chart topping pop confectioners that they are, simply lack. At least that seems to be how the "elite" see it.

Me, I'm not one to abide musical elitism. But I'd probably get a slug in the gut from my mates of they knew how often I listen to kiss me kiss me kiss me.

To me only music is important. It´s quite same to me what other things my fav. artists do, they can be rich, shitheads, always on the top lists etc. Also it´s totally same to me, do somebody call the music I like mainstream. And also it´s totally same to me, what my friends think about my taste of music.

I think in the beginning of eighties Bauhaus was even more popular than the Cure. But of course after Bauhaus splitting the Cure become more famous.