[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

its about the spread of genes but the process itself is also blind and purposeless.

precisely, genes are just random pieces of code hashing it out just like everything else.

Originally Posted by dead_battery

but you cant accurately say that genes can 'eat your fuck' because your (sense of) will does not possess the power to override your neurobiology.

any (perceived) teleology is simply the product of natural selection; genes ("individual" genes if you will) have no great agenda and don't coordinate your actions as an alien reptilian conspiracy.

the sense of individuality is a product of those genes (some of them anyway). this is mostly because individuals make good gene packets.

but where i think you're misreading i think is in seeing a direct line between a one-party one-leader gene conspiracy and predetermined action-- it's not like that, it's more of a genetic melee and its interactions with the environment.

also there is such thing as emergent systems-- that sense of individuality for example.

which is what makes things like suicide or cancer possible (suicide doesn't "spread genes"). one level of organization at odds with another. it's not all linear and cohesive at all.

but true, true, true enough, the genes don't care one shit about the individual either-- maybe it's the species, maybe it's the whole mass of dna, but more likely there is no privileged anything and it's just formations and disintegrations-- no agenda of any kind.

for a comparable model read up on the "pandemonium" theory of the mind. or old chinese medicine, where the body is nearly nothing other than the cooperation or competition of various "organs". (or the greeks and their humor theory)

the sense of will/ etc is not one with the underlying genes. they are clashing all the time because even the underlying genes are clashing all the time.

Originally Posted by dead_battery

individualism alone is not enough for any man.

but of course not. i like a healthy distance though.

Originally Posted by dead_battery

but the real question here is what personal crisis has caused this thread to exist?

oh, this reminds me of that trite shit people say in speeches about the chinese character (blech), but true enough even if trite, it's an opportunity of sorts-- to create a living space the way i fucking want.

to put it in a way that you can immediately relate to (since you've mentioned your own project), i am trying to make human need soylent. and i realized there is a necessary tradeoff between those two needs (identity + freedom) as defined in that list , kinda like in the way copper and zinc or calcium and magnesium or sodium and potassium need a certain balance-- too much of one or too little of the other makes you sick or kills you.

in other words, i'm making an economic calculation to fit my particular needs. which is harder to estimate than minerals. and i realized that i value "freedom" (delicious) a whole fuckton more than i value "identity" (which in other than small doses gives me rashes). power (which isn't mentioned in the list) is a kind of violator for me actually because it gets me deeper into group identity and severely limits my choices.

tl;dr; i need lots of elbow room

[dead_battery]

well as long as your isolation doesn't disempower your chances of survival.

the only lesson i was trying to impart is that SERIOUS isolation, which i have experience of, will cause insanity and incurable depression that can only be lifted by reentering some sort of group. casual drinking groups or whatever are not enough.

it seems we are moving in a direction where people barely even have friends anymore, and even talking to someone is taken as the same thing as wanting to fuck them. very depressing. every social circle i've been in in recent years has been worse than hell, since they were engaging in groupthink and suicidal behaviour with substances etc.

i cant even pretend to know how to solve these problems.

this is all happening at a time when reproduction rates are going down amongst us white folk, and especially amongst us rich and middle class folks. most of the racism i see stems from a deep jealously of the real or imagined community solidarity the racial groups are unconsciously thought to posses.

we dont even really have places left were you can go just to discuss things with people. there are just a few highly competitive and highly hedonistic bar type places where you go to bleed money and have one night stands.

i can see no way this process is suddenly going to reverse.

i am really envious of christians because they at least have some sort of trace of community.

apparently in my town people have started going to the psych ward on CHRISTMAS DAY just because they are so lonely and have nowhere else to go. that's really sad.

[Rob Instigator]

most suicides happen over the winter holidays. people get depressed

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

Also - I think if Cobain had managed his finances and life better.

instead he destroyed himsel , that's adolescent cowardice. instead of claiming what was rightfully his and fighting back he chose oblivion.

 

[dead_battery]

hyuk hyuk

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Yeah, I saw you retracted later and got less troll more serious, but I couldn't resist. As to Kurt, people abusing drugs tend not to be in their right minds, we can't judge them to harshly or even seriously, the chaos that becomes their lives doesn't entirely fit into easily analyzed template. Also, I think you touched on my point about the wealthy and elite..

Originally Posted by dead_battery

the only lesson i was trying to impart is that SERIOUS isolation, which i have experience of, will cause insanity and incurable depression that can only be lifted by reentering some sort of group. casual drinking groups or whatever are not enough.

it seems we are moving in a direction where people barely even have friends anymore, . very depressing.


there are just a few highly competitive and highly hedonistic bar type places where you go to bleed money and have one night stands.

[dead_battery]

those we are so determined to save from judgement are often those we have absolutely no respect for in the first place.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Yes, but part of the support system we're discussing is directly working to help people, and since folks like ourselves were not in anyway a part of his own support system, any judgments we pass, good or bad, are just needless meddling gossip. As to the wealthy? Its gossip too. I was just discussing with !@#$%!'s point, and your agreement, that wealth or power might bridge the gap between freedom and the human need for belonging to others which by definition limits personal freedom and empowers other people. Wealth or power alone can't do this, and if anything might hinder such, rather individual readjustment and applied effort to build and sustain supportive relationships will suffice. You will inherently sacrifice freedoms, but you will gain all the more. Even evolutionarily speaking, human beings are social mammals, we can't survive independent of each other. We must sacrifice aspects of ourselves for the benefit of the group, it is the basis of survival of the fittest for social mammals like ourselves. Shit, even isolated or solitary creatures have to momentarily yield to etiquette when on those few occasions they interact with their own kind, in order to reproduce. No reproduction? Evolutionary dead end. In social mammals, even those who never reproduce still contribute to the overall group, and maintain a critical role in the success of the species, even if not directly contributing offspring to the gene pool. Plus, DNA isn't everything, genes simply lay out options and potentialities, its the interaction with real life and the environment which determine those which are activated, and those which will remain dormant.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

well as long as your isolation doesn't disempower your chances of survival.

on the contrary, i think. i've loved cities for a long time but it's kinda the way one loves a pricey whore-- satisfaction isn't ever fully realized and you always have to pay and pay and pay and if you run out of money the love is gone. whereas now i'm spending the summer in the middle of nowhere and i'm enjoying it more the more i do it-- at first it's harsh, but then you settle into a satisfaction you can feel in your bones. so i'm considering staying for the long run (which is why the soylent recipe must be completed soon)

of course the fracking company could show up tomorrow and fuck it all up for good.

Originally Posted by dead_battery

the only lesson i was trying to impart is that SERIOUS isolation, which i have experience of, will cause insanity and incurable depression that can only be lifted by reentering some sort of group. casual drinking groups or whatever are not enough.

oh, i have a family-- and some animals-- hA!

Originally Posted by dead_battery

it seems we are moving in a direction where people barely even have friends anymore, and even talking to someone is taken as the same thing as wanting to fuck them. very depressing. every social circle i've been in in recent years has been worse than hell, since they were engaging in groupthink and suicidal behaviour with substances etc.

funny thing, couple of years ago i'm in new york, of all places, and i'm positively drunk on beer in some brewery playing darts with a bunch of international people, bunch of people i don't even know but it's all friendly, and i start talking to this dogfaced american lady who's hovering around us, because i'm not prejudiced with looks and i'll be friendly with anyone, and suddenly she acts like i'm trying to hit on her and i say ARE YOU FUCKING DEMENTED? i didn't tell her she was dogfaced or anything about her looks, but man, i made fun of her social incompetence, i didn't say or do anything remotely sexual except maybe be my hot manly self, but no, she had to fucking go there for no reason. idiot!

Originally Posted by dead_battery

i cant even pretend to know how to solve these problems.

it's an experiment! have fun with it.

Originally Posted by dead_battery

this is all happening at a time when reproduction rates are going down amongst us white folk, and especially amongst us rich and middle class folks. most of the racism i see stems from a deep jealously of the real or imagined community solidarity the racial groups are unconsciously thought to posses.

i grew up middle class but i'm not "white" but rather a full transcontinental mongrel and i married a brown savage and in my country of birth all "races" interfuck, but i read this yesterday which you might find hilarious:

http://gawker.com/video-of-violent-r...re-o-954939719

Originally Posted by dead_battery

we dont even really have places left were you can go just to discuss things with people. there are just a few highly competitive and highly hedonistic bar type places where you go to bleed money and have one night stands.

gotta say, the latin american middle class where i grew up was pretty highly educated relative to income, so while there were of course all those places to snort coke and act like an suntanned idiot, there were plenty of boho places full of nerdy leftists and street musicians and all kinds of people who were sincere in their experiments. which made it possible to stay up till 6am talking about all kinds of revolutions and singing cuban folk songs and other stereotypical latin-american boho bullshit. but silly as it was, it was enjoyable. that's something one can't find in 'merica-- but i have a couple of friends i can do that with--at home of course, because public places are utter shit here.

by the way, scientists are far more interesting and open-minded than humanities people. check them out if you can.

Originally Posted by dead_battery

i can see no way this process is suddenly going to reverse.

hence the need for need soylent!

Originally Posted by dead_battery

i am really envious of christians because they at least have some sort of trace of community.

ew. seriously.

Originally Posted by dead_battery

apparently in my town people have started going to the psych ward on CHRISTMAS DAY just because they are so lonely and have nowhere else to go. that's really sad.

i know i say this a lot and i really hope it doesn't sound patronizing like it might in other contexts, but you really really really need to travel, even if only to be able to pick and choose some refreshing/useful/fortifying cultural memes (in the dawkins sense, not the internet sense) before they are wiped out from the planet by anglosaxon capitalism.

[dead_battery]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Yes, but part of the support system we're discussing is directly working to help people, and since folks like ourselves were not in anyway a part of his own support system, any judgments we pass, good or bad, are just needless meddling gossip.

I disagree.

Originally Posted by suchfriendsaredangerous

As to the wealthy? Its gossip too. I was just discussing with !@#$%!'s point, and your agreement, that wealth or power might bridge the gap between freedom and the human need for belonging to others which by definition limits personal freedom and empowers other people. Wealth or power alone can't do this, and if anything might hinder such, rather individual readjustment and applied effort to build and sustain supportive relationships will suffice. You will inherently sacrifice freedoms, but you will gain all the more. Even evolutionarily speaking, human beings are social mammals, we can't survive independent of each other. We must sacrifice aspects of ourselves for the benefit of the group, it is the basis of survival of the fittest for social mammals like ourselves.

Barely able to understand that.

[dead_battery]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

on the contrary, i think. i've loved cities for a long time but it's kinda the way one loves a pricey whore-- satisfaction isn't ever fully realized and you always have to pay and pay and pay and if you run out of money the love is gone. whereas now i'm spending the summer in the middle of nowhere and i'm enjoying it more the more i do it-- at first it's harsh, but then you settle into a satisfaction you can feel in your bones. so i'm considering staying for the long run (which is why the soylent recipe must be completed soon)

You can order soylent online, I highly recommend it, or make it your self. It would be a good idea to learn how to make it, then store supplies of it for the long term. That's what I plan to do anyway.

oh, i have a family-- and some animals-- hA!







i grew up middle class but i'm not "white" and i married a brown savage and in my country of birth all "races" interfuck, but i read this yesterday which you might find hilarious:

http://gawker.com/video-of-violent-r...re-o-954939719

the body politic has been infected with juggaloism - as evidenced by the young mans cry of 'woop woop' at the end. my ceaseless calls for a genocide of this group can be ignored no longer.

i know i say this a lot and i really hope it doesn't sound patronizing like it might in other contexts, but you really really really need to travel, even if only to be able to pick and choose some refreshing/useful/fortifying cultural memes (in the dawkins sense, not the internet sense) before they are wiped out from the planet by anglosaxon capitalism.

the only thing anglosaxon capitalisms still capable wiping out is anyone who opposes its senile decline into hell. and innocent muslim women and children.

also - dont have travel money, wont have travel money for a while, but will consider it.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

You can order soylent online, I highly recommend it, or make it your self. It would be a good idea to learn how to make it, then store supplies of it for the long term. That's what I plan to do anyway.

oh, i love "real" food too much, if anything i'll be able to eat more "wild" food if i proceed in this route (grass fed cows! deer! wabbits!). the soylent i meant was the "fundamental need soylent", i.e., to construct a life that satisfies all fundamental human needs without the added fillers and bullshit (especially at the social level).

of course it's an absurd plan, but i like experiments-- even when they fail, they are useful.

[dead_battery]

good luck

[!@#$%!]

ha! i'll need it for sure. thanks!

[!@#$%!]

ps anyway my original point (retranslated) was that maybe nietzsche's will to power is just the will to freedom up in arms when it encounters an obstacle-- e.g. social resistance, gravity, etc.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

i am really envious of christians because they at least have some sort of trace of community.

.