[HaydenAsche]

Originally Posted by val-holla-ing

if chris rock went on a tirade and personally attacked audience members, it would've been just as bad and no one would excuse it.

i like nas, but if you don't, i won't call you racist.

They wouldn't have excused it BUT it wouldn't have been as big of a deal as this is coming out to me. I hope you understand.

I was called a racist by AT LEAST 4 board members for my taste in music. I know it wasn't you. I never insinuated that.

[atari 2600]

I have serious doubts if anyone will come forward to defend this outburst - it is indefensible, and not the least bit funny, and you can hear in Richards' voice that he said what he said to be as hurtful as he could be - but if a hypothetical person came forward to defend Richards, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the name of Lenny Bruce was invoked.

In case you never heard about it, part of the Bruce legend is a bit of standup called 'Are There Any Niggers Here Tonight?,' a long monologue that featured repeated, gratuitous use of the N-word. He pretty much beats the word to death - and that's exactly the point. A rough transcript follows after the flip.

"The reason I don't get hung up with, well, say, integration, is that by the time Bob Newhart is integrated, I'm bigoted. And anyway, Martin Luther King, Bayard Rustin are geniuses, the battle's won. By the way, are there any niggers here tonight?

(Outraged whisper) "What did he say? ïAre there any niggers here tonight?' Jesus Christ! Does he have to get that low for laughs? Wow! Have I ever talked about the schwarzes when the schwarzes had gone home? Or spoken about the Moulonjohns when they'd left? Or placated some Southerner by absence of voice when he ranted and raved about nigger nigger nigger?"

Are there any niggers here tonight? I know that one nigger who works here, I see him back there. Oh, there's two niggers, customers, and, ah, aha! Between those two niggers sits one kike-- man, thank God for the kike! Uh, two kikes. That's two kikes, and three niggers, and one spic. One spic-- two, three spics. One mick. One mick, one spic, one hick, thick, funcky, spunky boogey. And there's another kike. Three kikes. Three kikes, one guinea, one greaseball. Three greaseballs, two guineas. Two guineas, one hunky funky lace-curtain Irish mick. That mick spic hunky funky boogey. Two guineas plus three greaseballs and four boogies makes usually three spics. Minus two Yid spic Polack funky spunky Polacks.

AUCTIONEER: Five more niggers! Five more niggers!

GAMBLER: I pass with six niggers and eight micks and four spics.

The point? That the word's suppression gives it the power, the violence, the viciousness. If President Kennedy got on television and said, "Tonight I'd like to introduce the niggers in my cabinet,: and he yelled "nig- gerniggerniggerniggerniggerniggergigger" at every nigger he saw, "boogeyboogeyboogeyboogeyboogey,nig-gerniggerniggernigger" till nigger didn't mean anything any more, till nigger lost its meaning-- you'd never make any four-year-old "nigger" cry when he came home from school.

There don't seem to be any recordings of Bruce performing this monologue, but it was immortalized on film by Dustin Hoffman in the 1974 film Lenny.

It was shocking when Bruce did it, but he did it precisely to disarm the power of the word - his intent was to shock, but not to insult.

And among many differences between a giant like Bruce and a... TV character like Richards, that is the greatest difference. Bruce used the word to educate in a time when it was used to hurt, Richards used the word to try to hurt in a time when anyone using it to hurt should know better.

Monday, November 20 2006 @ 06:27 EST
Contributed by: Stranger

[cosmokramer]

sorryyy guys...

[atari 2600]

What's your new name gonna be? Any ideas rattling around in the belfry?

[hat and beard]

kramers remark is a palindrome.

and the guy is obviously a douche bag.

NOW YOU KNOW.

[blastscenealibi]

It's okay everybody. Jesse accepted his apology.

[artsygrrl]

...Just viewed the tape.....wow...wtf was he thinking????

[khchris]

Michael Richards?
love him.
beats borat

You people should give the poor man a break.
I mean they were heckling him!
There's no excuse for that

You see how I react when I get heckled..(LOL )

[gmku]

He was so funny in his telecast apology on the Letterman show. "Afro Americans." Ha! There's your clue right there! I mean, who says that anymore! All of this has to be a put-on a la Andy Kaufman. The guy's too smart a comedian to make this kind of mistake unless it's an intentional put-on.

[atsonicpark]

who cares?

some black people are "n's". just like some white people are white trash. etc.

just because he was being derogatory towards a black person doesn't mean shit -- it'd be the same as if he called a woman a bitch or some random dude a motherfucker.

that doesn't necassarily mean he thinks all women are bitches or all dudes are motherfuckers and so on.

whatever, it was uncalled for, it wasn't, the point is, he said it, they called him a cracker in return, and oh no!! race war 2006! i'm offended cuz some black guy used the word cracker! oh shit!

i mean seriously.. who cares? people have made too big a deal out of nothing.

[king_buzzo]

he's such a badass

[RdTv]

Kramer crossed the line. What he did will never be lived down, and he deserves it, he lost control and thats what happens. You can't come on tv and spit out some apology and expect all of america to immediately forgive or even forgive down the line. If somebody is in the audience heckling you, well that sucks for the perfomer, but its too bad, thats part of the job sometimes. It doesn't give you the right to explode in a rage and completely insult and degrade ANYONE, not to mention one up that by pulling out the ''n'' word.

He made a mistake and is def going to pay for it.

[king_buzzo]

pirates or the carrebian 2 is random

IGNORE this post... it was for another thread

[Glice]

Just watched the video. It looks to me like he just got really, really pissed off with a heckler and utterly failed to pull any comedy out of the situation. I'm not going to bother with the debate on the use of 'that' word, but it strikes me that this chap (I've never watched a whole episode of Seinfeld) just died horrifically on his arse. Inappropriate only because it's not funny. Lenny Bruce would probably have pulled something funny out, as would Richard Pryor, not because they're racists or not-racists, but because they're good comedians.

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by WHOREOHSCOPE

I don't support what Michael Richards did but what is with the constant use of the term "n word", I hate that sort of censorship if your going to refrain from using the word than don't even say the "N-Word" cause it's just a pretentious way to put it. I doubt anyone will be offended because think of the context your using it in, I mean it really isn't derogatory. This isn't to spark argument or say how anyone phrased themself was wrong, but just to question whether putting it down to "n-word" is really even neccesary in this situation.


Edit:
But the way this blown up because of celeb status is just a testatment to how fucked up American society's priorities are, why is this a headline story, when so much more important stuff is going on ??? Then again this is more worthy of media attention than the Britney/K-fed split or any other hollywood hook up/break up story.

And I agree largely with AtSonic Park --- WHO CARES.
This racial shit just seems to persist over and over........

i don't like the word "*igger". i don't feel comfortable saying it or even hearing it. to this day, there are songs that i love but when i hear the "n-word" it makes me a little guilty for liking the song(HOLIDAY IN CAMBODIA & HATE THE POLICE are just a couple examples). i just don't like it personally and i do thank people for not going out of their way just to use the "n-word" just to "shock people" on the board. simple: if you don't need to say it, don't say it. don't say it if you just want to shock people for amusement.

it's not about being "pretentious"...it's about respect.

i dunno, maybe you're more comfortable than the rest of us with the use of the "n-word". if that's the case, then i think the person who needs to question themselves is you.

[EMMAh]

I haven't seen the video yet. I want to but I don't want to believe it. Kramer isn't supposed to be like that
I haven't even watched Seinfeld since I heard...

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by WHOREOHSCOPE

I'm more comfortable with it because I don't hate people and if it were used in the right context than it should be inoffensive- it's people holding onto racial issues that also push this thing on. I am not COMFORTABLE with it's use like some sort of white trash, racist figur or like you pointed out gangsta rapper(NWA)... and I happen to enjoy John Lennon's song "woman is the nigger of the world" despite the word, because I know the intentions. It's all in the intetions. I'm just not that way, and I feel that it can be used in a justified context. But I did recognize that it could also be out of respect: This isn't to spark argument or say how anyone phrased themself was wrong... which I could have went into deeper detail about but didn't...... I don't like the word either, its demeaning and its bullshit. BUT if your quoting someone........ it's a completely different story, you are not being demeaning or disrespectful.

why even make a big deal about the fact that some of us would rather phrase the word as "the 'N' word"? why even make it a debate? we should be talking about why people still harbor racism inside, not whether or not someone wants to rephrase a word. the word "nigger" was not really a necessity in the title of the thread. he was not "quoting" michael richards...he was simply telling people that richards was using the "n-word".

no offense, but it does make you look like you're looking to pick on people or inviting an argument for no good reason but boredom.

well, i'm not going to argue with you. if you want to use the word "nigger", then knock yourself out & have fun. just don't criticize other people just because the wish to rephrase the word out of respect of others. not everyone has the same level of respect towards everybody. some people just want a little attention and will go to lengths to get it, even if it leads them to using the word "nigger" to get a spark or attention. i've lived in the south, i have racist relatives, and i still hate the word and i don't feel comfortable honestly in any context. it's just a word i don't find any beauty in. congrats to you for feeling comfortable using it.

anybody can be "cool and awesome" and use language just to get attention or to give the impression that you're "hardcore". but it's more difficult to be respectful to everyone on all levels.

let it go, bro.

[WHOREOHSCOPE]

Originally Posted by khchris(original)

why even make a big deal about the fact that some of us would rather phrase the word as "the 'N' word"? why even make it a debate? we should be talking about why people still harbor racism inside, not whether or not someone wants to rephrase a word. the word "nigger" was not really a necessity in the title of the thread. he was not "quoting" michael richards...he was simply telling people that richards was using the "n-word".

no offense, but it does make you look like you're looking to pick on people or inviting an argument for no good reason but boredom.

well, i'm not going to argue with you. if you want to use the word "nigger", then knock yourself out & have fun. just don't criticize other people just because the wish to rephrase the word out of respect of others. not everyone has the same level of respect towards everybody. some people just want a little attention and will go to lengths to get it, even if it leads them to using the word "nigger" to get a spark or attention. i've lived in the south, i have racist relatives, and i still hate the word and i don't feel comfortable honestly in any context. it's just a word i don't find any beauty in. congrats to you for feeling comfortable using it.

anybody can be "cool and awesome" and use language just to get attention or to give the impression that you're "hardcore". but it's more difficult to be respectful to everyone on all levels.

let it go, bro.

I'm not knocking the phrasing of the title of the thread!!!!!!!!!! My girlfriend is the person who started the thread, all I did was raised a question, this was not to spark anything like I said( I'm not gonna lie it's a net forum, if I did it out of straight up boredum I'd say it), just to see if anyone else felt the same. I also see where your coming from and I'm sorry if you misunderstand where I am.... to try and restate where i am here , basically all i meant was to:


+++Question if it was really neccesary to say, "n-word"
(the follow up to this is the important part)

+++I clearly said it that I wasn't saying anyone was wrong in doing so and in my 2nd post I even said that I understood it coming out of respect.