[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by MellySingsDoom

Surely truly free speech would INCLUDE the right to spout bigotry, misinformation etc.?

ha ha, so next time your doctor misdiagnoses you, gives you the wrong prescription, nearly kills you, and you sue him for malpractice, he's going to cry "free speech"??

[MellySingsDoom]

"So what if I misdiagnosed him? It's my human right to do that. Don't tell me what to say."

Such a scenario wouldn't be entirely fantastic in this country, !@#$%!. I was being a bit Devil's Advocate there, though. Of course, free speech shouldn't permit the right to spout any old bullshit, in my opinion. I'm interested in the US First Amendment in this respect. Have there been any legal challenges as to what people in the US can get away with saying?

[pbradley]

But surely artistic expression, satire, and political opinion should retain greater freedom.

Also, I challenge that abolsute freedom of speech is even possible. Consequences follow from opinion even in an anarchistic state.

[MellySingsDoom]

pbradley - indeed, absolute free speech is a utopian ideal. The political opinion one is interesting - do you feel that someone in the US would be permitted to call for the US to become an Islamic state, for example?

[pbradley]

Sure. The advocation of Islamic values is just as reasonable as advocating capitalistic, Christian, or socialistic values.

[Hip Priest]

Originally Posted by MellySingsDoom

Surely truly free speech would INCLUDE the right to spout bigotry, misinformation etc.?

Certainly in the case of pure freedom of speech, but I was talking about putting free speech in the context of a civilised society.

Pure free speech would never work, because the incidences of bigotry etc will always incite some people to action and they will cause oppression for others, therefore removing their right to the same free speech. That's why I think it best to have te right to legal redress for such instances, since it forces people towards a position where they must have solid, evidential reasons for what they say.

[MellySingsDoom]

Hip Priest - can't disagree with your point of view on this.

[Tokolosh]

Let thy speech be better than silence, or be silent.
Dionysius of Halicarnassus

[MellySingsDoom]

Originally Posted by Tokolosh

Let thy speech be better than silence, or be silent.
Dionysius of Halicarnassus

 

"Whut 'chu talikin' about, Dinonysius?"

[Jt]

Should I be boring and get all legal on yo' asses?

Yes? Good.

Well, I know very little about the US situation, but in England we have a myriad of legislative measures to curtail free speech. Probably the most important nowadays is Article 10 of the European Convention of Human Rights, incorporated into our law by way of the Human Rights Act 1998.

Article 10 states:

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

You'd be surprised at how widely that second paragraph is interpreted.

For what it's worth I think unconditional free speech is an idealistic and unworkable notion, but that's just me. Being right.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by MellySingsDoom

I'm interested in the US First Amendment in this respect. Have there been any legal challenges as to what people in the US can get away with saying?

hm, there's a lot of things you can't get away with saying in the u.s., and for good reason. calling for the assassination from a president, even in a joking manner, will earn you a swift visit from the secret service. i once read the story of a successful marijuana grower and dealer who lived right in the middle of d.c. in his apartment-sized greenhouse. his roommate, drunk, once called the white house and started spouting nonsense. the secret service raided the house and found a) a stupid, drunken roommate, and b) an assload of marijuana plants, growing lights, hydroponic equipment, etc.

but there IS a lot that you can say as long as it isn't a call for destructive action. you may have seen louis theroux's "the most hated family in america", about the phelps family who tours the country saying that "god hates fags". as long as you are promoting ideas and not inciting action that disturbs the peace, your speech is protected.

i'd recommend starting with wikipedia, they have a decent starter page on the subject, plus articles on landmark legal decisions, etc.

Originally Posted by MellySingsDoom

pbradley - indeed, absolute free speech is a utopian ideal. The political opinion one is interesting - do you feel that someone in the US would be permitted to call for the US to become an Islamic state, for example?

of course they can; though the same first amendment decrees the separation of church and state, so while they could say anything they want they would likely face a number of legal challenges on their rise to power.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by Tokolosh

Let thy speech be better than silence, or be silent.
Dionysius of Halicarnassus

So that's where my mom got it from.

[Magic Wheel Memory]

If you are talking about the legal protection of free speech, then there should definitely be limits (and there are).