[Rob Instigator]

What I am asking, and I would like to hear input from you fellow sonicheads, is, In today's fragmented popular culture, where niche movies,a nd niche music, and niche TV shows are the norm, and where the outlets for music, film, and TV are more expansive and fragmented than ever, will there ever be another wholesale musical sensation?

Even Hip Hop, the strongest new musical idiom of the past 30 years, has never gotten to have the overwhelming general public love that musical acts like elvis, the beatles, and Michael Jackson had.

Even the biggest of modern era pop stars sell far far less than what would have been the case back when regular TV had 7 channels and cable TV had just 50 or so channels. Now, with 300+ channels on TV, statelite radio, internet radio, streaming radio, regular airwaves radio NEVER playing anything new, is mass consciousness love just an impossibility to achieve?

[demonrail666]

I think that from time to time a figure does appear, Prince or Madonna for example, but it's certainly getting harder to cross-over in that way.

[Everyneurotic]

who cares? i'm not dependant on that since i have access to awesome music.

[Savage Clone]

I don't know that it is reversible at this stage. The notion of a "shared culture" seems to be almost obsolete now. I don't know that this is lamentable even; with access to more choices, more people will find greater satisfaction in alignment with their own tastes (and be able to develop those tastes in the long term) than they might have found had they only been able to access what the mass culture feeds them.

[Everyneurotic]

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

I don't know that it is reversible at this stage. The notion of a "shared culture" seems to be almost obsolete now. I don't know that this is lamentable even; with access to more choices, more people will find greater satisfaction in alignment with their own tastes (and be able to develop those tastes in the long term) than they might have found had they only been able to access what the mass culture feeds them.

thanks for taking the time to expand on my thoughts with this post.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

I don't know that it is reversible at this stage. The notion of a "shared culture" seems to be almost obsolete now. I don't know that this is lamentable even; with access to more choices, more people will find greater satisfaction in alignment with their own tastes (and be able to develop those tastes in the long term) than they might have found had they only been able to access what the mass culture feeds them.

that's the thing man. mass culture did not feed anyone elvis. they did not feed anyone the beatles. they did not feed anyone michael jackson. these artists preceded the hype and blew up FORCING the mass media to notice them, for example, michael jackson being one of the first black acts to get into heavy rotation on MTV strictly BECAUSE the man was selling records hand over fist to anyone with a fucking ear! They HAD to follow dig? In a very real sense, elvis, and the n the beatles,a dn then michael jackson forced mass media and culture to expand to fit THEM, not the other way around.
Hip hop has not had someone come close yet. I am guessing it will never happen. they tried to hype eminem as some sort of crossover guy, but there is such a divide.

to me, the fragmentation of music and music fans into so many subgenres is really jus t a triumph of the CLIQUE. Insular fans stop suporting an act once it gets biger than their town or their state. It in my opinion, is much more detrimental to have music fans be so fragmented.

I did not live through them but I always yearned for the days when radio was programmed by the DJ and when you could hear a popular music station and tune in a rock song, a soul song, a country song, a jazz song, anda folk song all back to back, with no real divisions made . (because as we all know, divisions in music are really permeable and for all intents and purposes can be treated as non-existant.)

Nothing lasts forever.

[nature scene]

I don't think it's reversible. Think of niche art as the equivalent of economic specialization. The world's population has blown up since the the times of elvis and the beatles (and even since michael jackson). More people = more tastes = more niches.

[Rob Instigator]

more niches also means less of an impetus to "rebel" against whatever "mainstream" is active at the moment, and that rebellionbhas fueld so much great new music, and musican idioms.
I will miss it all. every rock genre will slowly turn to navelgazing wankery, if it has not happened already.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

to me, the fragmentation of music and music fans into so many subgenres is really jus t a triumph of the CLIQUE. Insular fans stop suporting an act once it gets biger than their town or their state. It in my opinion, is much more detrimental to have music fans be so fragmented.

Something lost, something gained. I kind of miss the broad social community that came with the rise of the mega-artists. The fact that everyone had solid opinions on their work and that they became almost a part of the social landscape. But the cost of that was, as SC says, a genuine lack of choice. Such artists tend to accomodate mass taste and in so doing smooth off edges that might alienate. I'd exclude the Beatles from that description but, as we know, they're a bit of an exception.

Anyway, I much prefer what we have now: a situation where, with a little initiative, you can almost perfectly tailor your music to suit your tastes.

[Rob Instigator]

I don't think it is any diferent for someone like you or I demonrail. in the 70's and 80's you and I wold both have searched for music outside the mainstream. what I think is, that without any mainstream, any side streams get lost in their own whirlpools.
music, like all art, cannot live and gow and change in a vaccuum. it must be mixed up with other musics, other arts.

it is just hard to believe for me that there could exist such a time as when metal heads, jocks, punks, greasers, kickers, etc. were ALL buying Thriller and all dancing and loving it. I lived through it as a 10 year old. I hope it happens again.

[Savage Clone]

I think "The Underground" is fully aware of how much crap exists within it, and is perfectly capable of reacting to any dilution without necessarily needing a "mainstream" as the springboard for reaction/experimentation.

[cryptowonderdruginvogue]

interesting point you bring up rob

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

it is just hard to believe for me that there could exist such a time as when metal heads, jocks, punks, greasers, kickers, etc. were ALL buying Thriller and all dancing and loving it. I lived through it as a 10 year old. I hope it happens again.

I don't recall seeing that many metallers head-banging to Billie Jean.

[luxinterior]

I think if you go to this thread, you will find that Jack Johnson is more popular than Elvis, The Beatles, and Michael Jackson combined.

[pbradley]

My personal experience is starting to show more and more clearly that nothing is reversible.