[RanaldoNecro]

The word socialism will only exisit if you have something like 40% income tax rate. Where 40% of your paycheque goes into schools, health whatever.

This system is in place most Scandanavian countries. It seems to work for them.



Americans are just idiotic when it comes to this word. Canada is too 'more socialist' because we generally have higher taxes.

[knox]

Originally Posted by RanaldoNecro

The word socialism will only exisit if you have something like 40% income tax rate. Where 40% of your paycheque goes into schools, health whatever.

This system is in place most Scandanavian countries. It seems to work for them.



Americans are just idiotic when it comes to this word. Canada is too 'more socialist' because we generally have higher taxes.

the scandinavian countries are not socialist countries.
you can't be more or less socialist, it's a system, it's yes or no.
and 40% tax is pretty common in many places in the world, depending on how much you make, it's usually a rate that is applied to more high paid jobs, not the majority.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by knox

the scandinavian countries are not socialist countries.
you can't be more or less socialist, it's a system, it's yes or no.
and 40% tax is pretty common in many places in the world, depending on how much you make, it's usually a rate that is applied to more high paid jobs, not the majority.

excluding sales tax, the average american pays between 30-40% on income taxes combining state and federal..

[knox]

weird. for most of us, taxes are taxes, nothing to do with state or federal.
and people on lower incomes do not pay income tax.
anyway
that should be enough to afford health care no?

[RanaldoNecro]

I just think there is a grave misunderstanding in the USA about that term. Likewise, I started a thread on fascsim a while back because I also thought that it was a misused or misunderstood term.

I just object to that fear that somehow the American people are going to line up and start marching like in a Riefenstahl movie. It doesn't work that way.

[knox]

please stop saying socialised medicine.
it's just health care not socialism.
which unfortunately, you haven't got yet.

[HaydenAsche]

I understand what you're saying in most cases. I'm glad my parents finally see things in a larger scale. I'm happy some of the things I said made sense to them. Ha.

[automatic bzooty]

Originally Posted by knox

please stop saying socialised medicine.
it's just health care not socialism.
which unfortunately, you haven't got yet.

that's what my parents want though so errr that's why i worded it that way

medicine that is, not full on socialism

[knox]

it's not socialised medicine, it's just medicine, just the fact people feel the need to put the word socialised there says a lot.

[akprodr]

Really! What the fuck is so bad about socialism anyway? Europe seems to be doing just fine. The pheasants don't seem to be revolting...

[girlgun]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

excluding sales tax, the average american pays between 30-40% on income taxes combining state and federal..

and that's a LOT!

[static-harmony]

Bring down the socialist in the white house.

[knox]

Originally Posted by akprodr

Really! What the fuck is so bad about socialism anyway? Europe seems to be doing just fine. The pheasants don't seem to be revolting...

sorry

which countries in europe are socialist

i must have skipped life

[akprodr]

Well, they are more socialist than USA

[knox]

I don't think you can be more or less socialist. You either are, or aren't.
If that is your logic,there isn't one capitalist country in the world.
offering free health care is no different from offering free education, it doesn't change the right to private property, free market, competition and what not.

here's a list of countries that are socialist/communist at the moment:

china
cuba
north korea
laos
vietnam

you see, NOT in Europe.

[knox]

my geography teacher would be so mad, hearing people say that.
anyway
what i'm saying is just the spreading of the idea that public health care is more socialist than public schools or that those countries in Europe are (MIXED lol) is an attempt to scare people away from their most basic human rights and justify corporate abuse

[akprodr]

I would disagree: there is a continuum of governmental theories/practices. True capitalism would mean there is no gov't--everything is in the hands of private people. True commumnism means the gov't controls everything. And socialism would fall somewhere inbetween.

Where is the line? Impossible to say. Obviously, a lot of USians say that health care is socialist. But, public schools, police, fire, armed forces... are all socialist.

[knox]

Originally Posted by akprodr

I would disagree: there is a continuum of governmental theories/practices. True capitalism would mean there is no gov't--everything is in the hands of private people. True commumnism means the gov't controls everything. And socialism would fall somewhere inbetween.

Where is the line? Impossible to say. Obviously, a lot of USians say that health care is socialist. But, public schools, police, fire, armed forces... are all socialist.

No goverment = anarchy. What you call TRUE capitalism (which is bullshit by the way) is being called anarcho-capitalism and things like that.

They are systems and there aren't mixed systems in that way. All those European countries you've mentioned are capitalist, with free market, private business, property and assets and trade.

You can't be making definitions up as you please. Goverments, taxes and services were always part of capitalism. You're mixing it up with anarchy, different things.

the term "mixed economy" is pretty much an american invention - probably in the sense that they'd like you to believe that certain regulations would have a major impact in your personal freedom and democracy, but basically, just so their profits and activities are not controlled in any way.

as long as you're paying taxes for education, development, security why should health care fall into another category? I mean, you don't call it socialised education.

[!@#$%!]

my parents are happy for me now that health care reform has passedd-- they have government-provided health care supplemented by private insurance. they live in a 3rd world country and get way better health care than i do here in 'Merica!

oh the irony

i'm watching the sunday political shows by the way, i can't believe these teabagger cunts keep crying about it. actually i believe it-- it's just highly annoying. i hope they die.

[akprodr]

Originally Posted by knox

No goverment = anarchy. What you call TRUE capitalism (which is bullshit by the way) is being called anarcho-capitalism and things like that.

True--there are economic systems and social systems. And sure, anarchy is not exclusive from capitalism. Socialism and communism are economic systems. The Stalinist system would be called a 'command' society. I used the word 'true' to denote that it was idealized and really can't exist in the world. China can hardly be called purely communist any more.

They are systems and there aren't mixed systems in that way. All those European countries you've mentioned are capitalist, with free market, private business, property and assets and trade.

Sure, but the government has a good amount of control over a variety of aspects of life. Socialism.

You can't be making definitions up as you please. Goverments, taxes and services were always part of capitalism. You're mixing it up with anarchy, different things.

As we've learned from Texas, the people who write the textbooks create the definitions. You're definintion is probably different from mine.

Look at http://www.politicalcompass.org/index to see how my definitions work and are related.

<snip>
as long as you're paying taxes for education, development, security why should health care fall into another category? I mean, you don't call it socialised education.

No, USians (and I guess you) do not call those things socialism. But they are.