[fluxequalsrad]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

\

me either. I personally HATE guns. But I feel the right to own a killing weapon is part of life.

 

[soniknirve]

Originally Posted by fluxequalsrad

 

the right to BEAR arms. i saw that one.

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i think tyrants however are too well-armed these days for a .38 to put a dent in their plans. besides, where's the "well regulated militia" we're talking about?

*where do you draw the line*? is it with handguns? automatic weapons? how about hand grenades? high-power explosives? rocket launchers? is it ok for the people to keep an apache helicopter in their backyard?

This is a good question. To the first point, let me note that yeah a .38 doesn't stand a chance against an apache mounted VulcanMinigun. So tactically you wouldn't fight like that. but don't forget that there's like 10,000 of us for every govt equipped & trained killer. Personally I'd like one of those sniper rifles with an onboard computer that adjusts for wind and rotation of the earth.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

\

me either. I personally HATE guns. But I feel the right to own a killing weapon is part of life.

Yeah, it's a right that's protected under the Bill of Rights. It's #2. Free Speech, as we know, is #1. But, what's as obvious as the sun in the sky is that these rights are only afforded to those that utilize the rights responsibly, and, in the case of gun ownership, according to the proper protocols. It should already be clear that the right to bear arms under the Second Amendment is merely a potential privilege and not an inherent right. This is already recognized by the various differing regulations in place regarding gun ownership.
Not everyone that plans to purchase a gun can get one.

Do you think the parents of the Hanover High teen that printed

CHO SEUNG-HUI
(pinned a picture of the killer)
NATIONAL HERO

on a white T-shirt in black majik marker just told their son that it was
all right what he did and that they respect his free speech?

So, therefore, what we find is the reality that these rights are really part of a trust between the individual and the state to exercise the rights responsibly and without infringing on the rights of others.

Therefore, Rob, Mr. Instigator, a debate over all the aspects of gun control is relevant to this discussion.
Whereas, your point over and over again, Rob, is that there is no room for debate on the matter, and that the issue has been already decided and set into stone.

[Rob Instigator]

huh?

I have stated nothing with finality as regards this discussion, just how I feel about the issue of gun ownership The constitution of the USA is the FINALITY, until the time someone decides to change it.

guns are built for killing. That is their sole purpose. to defend one's home and family, a weapon of some sort is needed. Now, do you want to defend your home against a violent criminal with a gun or with a hand held club?

read what I posted before. Violent crime rate in the USA is at a low low point in our history. crime is lower here than in the UK by a LOT actually. the one thing the USA leads the world in is homicides and suicides. both of these are societal issues, not solvable by the removal of a specific weapon.

[atari 2600]

HUH? I'm in TEXazz

HUH?
what?

i'LL cite some statistics

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

crime is lower here than in the UK by a LOT actually.

What a bizarre and patently untrue thing to say.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

guns are built for killing. That is their sole purpose.

This is the most sensible sentence you've written the whole thread.

Good job on those body punches, the ikara cult!

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Yeah, it's a right that's protected under the Bill of Rights. It's #2. Free Speech, as we know, is #1. But, what's as obvious as the sun in the sky is that these rights are only afforded to those that utilize the rights responsibly, and, in the case of gun ownership, according to the proper protocols. It should already be clear that the right to bear arms under the Second Amendment is merely a potential privilege and not an inherent right. This is already recognized by the various differing regulations in place regarding gun ownership.
Not everyone that plans to purchase a gun can get one.

Post of the thread as far as I'm concerned.

I was going to add my thoughts to this, but there's no need.

[atari 2600]

Does anyone think that he parents of the Hanover High teen that printed

CHO SEUNG-HUI
(pinned a picture of the killer)
NATIONAL HERO

on a white T-shirt in black majik marker just told their son that it was
all right what he did and that they respect his right to free speech?

What we find is the reality that these "rights" are really part of a trust between the individual and the state to exercise the rights responsibly and without infringing on the rights of others.

[!@#$%!]

so you sayin in the u.s. you don't get mugged, you just get killed?

kinda funny-- i'd rather part with my wallet than with my fine & priceless body.

--

and again-- the 2nd amendment does not speak of the rights of an individual to have firearms for self defense.

it speaks of the right of "the people" to keep and bear arms for a well-organized state militia-- meant to balance the power of the federal army.

reading it differently is hystorical myopia.

I think that 2nd amendment is no good for todays society. America needs stricter Gun control otherwise things like this terrible event will keep on happening with us all wondering how and why.

[Rob Instigator]

go back and read thje article i posted earlier which details the high crime rate in the UK as opposed to the USA. the USA lead s the UK in HOMICIDE anD SUICIDE only.

[Rob Instigator]

if honest legal citizens did not have guns things like this massacre will still happen, and maybe even MORE so.

sad day where I agree vehemently with ted nugent but, this is what he wrote for CNN today. read it with an open mind.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/com...ent/index.html

Zero tolerance, huh? Gun-free zones, huh? Try this on for size: Columbine gun-free zone, New York City pizza shop gun-free zone, Luby's Cafeteria gun-free zone, Amish school in Pennsylvania gun-free zone and now Virginia Tech gun-free zone.
Anybody see what the evil Brady Campaign and other anti-gun cults have created? I personally have zero tolerance for evil and denial. And America had best wake up real fast that the brain-dead celebration of unarmed helplessness will get you killed every time, and I've about had enough of it.
Nearly a decade ago, a Springfield, Oregon, high schooler, a hunter familiar with firearms, was able to bring an unfolding rampage to an abrupt end when he identified a gunman attempting to reload his .22-caliber rifle, made the tactical decision to make a move and tackled the shooter.
A few years back, an assistant principal at Pearl High School in Mississippi, which was a gun-free zone, retrieved his legally owned Colt .45 from his car and stopped a Columbine wannabe from continuing his massacre at another school after he had killed two and wounded more at Pearl.
At an eighth-grade school dance in Pennsylvania, a boy fatally shot a teacher and wounded two students before the owner of the dance hall brought the killing to a halt with his own gun.
More recently, just a few miles up the road from Virginia Tech, two law school students ran to fetch their legally owned firearm to stop a madman from slaughtering anybody and everybody he pleased. These brave, average, armed citizens neutralized him pronto.
My hero, Dr. Suzanne Gratia Hupp, was not allowed by Texas law to carry her handgun into Luby's Cafeteria that fateful day in 1991, when due to bureaucrat-forced unarmed helplessness she could do nothing to stop satanic George Hennard from killing 23 people and wounding more than 20 others before he shot himself. Hupp was unarmed for no other reason than denial-ridden "feel good" politics.
She has since led the charge for concealed weapon upgrade in Texas, where we can now stop evil. Yet, there are still the mindless puppets of the Brady Campaign and other anti-gun organizations insisting on continuing the gun-free zone insanity by which innocents are forced into unarmed helplessness. Shame on them. Shame on America. Shame on the anti-gunners all.
No one was foolish enough to debate Ryder truck regulations or ammonia nitrate restrictions or a "cult of agriculture fertilizer" following the unabashed evil of Timothy McVeigh's heinous crime against America on that fateful day in Oklahoma City. No one faulted kitchen utensils or other hardware of choice after Jeffrey Dahmer was caught drugging, mutilating, raping, murdering and cannibalizing his victims. Nobody wanted "steak knife control" as they autopsied the dead nurses in Chicago, Illinois, as Richard Speck went on trial for mass murder.
Evil is as evil does, and laws disarming guaranteed victims make evil people very, very happy. Shame on us.
Already spineless gun control advocates are squawking like chickens with their tiny-brained heads chopped off, making political hay over this most recent, devastating Virginia Tech massacre, when in fact it is their own forced gun-free zone policy that enabled the unchallenged methodical murder of 32 people.
Thirty-two people dead on a U.S. college campus pursuing their American Dream, mowed-down over an extended period of time by a lone, non-American gunman in illegal possession of a firearm on campus in defiance of a zero-tolerance gun law. Feel better yet? Didn't think so.
Who doesn't get this? Who has the audacity to demand unarmed helplessness? Who likes dead good guys?
I'll tell you who. People who tramp on the Second Amendment, that's who. People who refuse to accept the self-evident truth that free people have the God-given right to keep and bear arms, to defend themselves and their loved ones. People who are so desperate in their drive to control others, so mindless in their denial that they pretend access to gas causes arson, Ryder trucks and fertilizer cause terrorism, water causes drowning, forks and spoons cause obesity, dialing 911 will somehow save your life, and that their greedy clamoring to "feel good" is more important than admitting that armed citizens are much better equipped to stop evil than unarmed, helpless ones.

[!@#$%!]

you know man it's funny you post this because my wife teaches at a university where there are incidents of domestic violence (boyfriend goes chasing the girlfriend walks into class beats her up-- really) and after this campus shit we've been talking about getting her some sort of self-defense weapon. i bought her a mace some time ago but she lost it. we've discussed guns, tazers & more.

i told her also the story of that appalachian school where some armed dudes disarmed a lunatic.

i am not opposed to people having guns for self-defense. i think it's a good idea. i'm against banning guns. however, i would license guns to people who
a) submit themselves to psychological testing (sure it can be fooled but it's better than nothing)
b) have no prior convictions of domestic violence
c) take a thorough weapons training course where they learn the rights and responsibilities of carrying firearms, and learn proper care & maintenance of their weapons.

i have NO problem with that.

where i have a problem is when any fucking asshole can walk into walmart and walk out with a pistol and ammunition. people with anger management issues. people who have substance abuse problems. people who are irresponsible and have no control of themselves. people who use guns to intimidate others. people with a big fucking chip on their shoulder. people who pull out a gun in traffic because you accidentally cut them off. wife-beaters. lunatics, like this cho asshole.

getting to drive a car is more difficult than packing a six shooter. that's just fucking wrong. if you get license, and training, i say get what you need for your self defense. but guns in the hands of unstable people and incompetents are more dangerous than anything.

again you conflate the 2nd amendment with the individual right to self defense. a lot of people do that, but they are 2 different things. 2 as in two as in dos as in a pair. i know a lot of people do that but it's not true. the "militia" preamble make things quite clear.

i don't believe any fucker has the "right" to go & own instruments of killing. he may have the right to free speech and habeas corpus and what not, but not this. he's not in a well-organized militia.

[tesla69]

You have a well trained police force and you get the Move House, Kent State, Orangeburg State, Waco, etc etc...

Well said, by the Nuge. he mentions "the mindless puppets of the Brady Campaign and other anti-gun organizations insist"

I'm just reading some stuff on the attempt on Reagan. Do you know they didn't remove a bullet from his body but a thin, dime sized razor edged disc? That Ronnie's ambulance left the shooting first but arrived at the hospital AFTER Brady? And everyone looks at me in shock when I tell'm that Hinckley's dad was scheduled to have dinner with George Sr that night.

[tesla69]

Strange Virginia Tech “Coincidences”

Kurt Nimmo
Friday April 20, 2007

As “News Commentary” on the Truthseeker website notes, Virginia Tech is an “active partner” with DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. In addition, the CIA actively recruits VT students, holding events the spook agency bills as “career information” sessions.
“News Commentary” claims “Blacksburg, VA houses a US government ABOVE TOP SECRET underground laboratory (in the side of a local Blacksburg mountain) that develops in conjunction with DARPA, weapons such as human robotic mind control programming.” A Google search, however, turns up no mention of mind control experiments, of course, but there is plenty of reference to the “Deep Underground Science and Engineering Laboratory… 7,000 feet under Butt Mountain” in Blacksburg.
Part of the AMADEUS Project (Advanced MAnipulation for DEep Underwater Sampling), funded by the European Commission (i.e., the executive body of the one-world European Union), the Deep Underground Science and Engineering Laboratory, according to The Pit Bulletin (the newsletter of the Department of Mining and Minerals Engineering at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University), is designed for “military needs, ranging from unique designs for underground sporting arenas to storing various types of waste materials…. the AMADEUS team feel that the expanding world population is creating a demand for additional types of underground construction.” As well, an “expanding world population” may call for the development of “perfect weapons” long sought by DARPA and the Pentagon, including avian influenza H5N1, an area of research at VT, according to Virginia Tech News (a Google reference points to a page that currently produces an SQL error). “If I were reincarnated, I would wish to be returned to Earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels,” Prince Phillip.
Finally, a resume posted on the VT Computer Science Department website by Robert G. Ball notes grants awarded to the university by ARDA/DTO, short for Advanced Research and Development Activity, Disruptive Technology Office. “ARDA was created in 1998 after the model of the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) by the Director of Central Intelligence and the Department of Defense, and took responsibility for funding some of DARPA’s projects,” explains Wikipedia. “There has been speculation that the DTO is continuing research efforts started under the Total Information Awareness program (TIA) in DARPA’s Information Awareness Office (IAO)…. Although ARDA’s budget is presumably classified as part of the intelligence budget, the New York Times quoted an unnamed former government official saying the agency spent about $100 million a year in 2003. The Associated Press reports that ARDA had a staff of only eight in 2004.” Early last year, I reported that DTO was to be run by John Negroponte (see my TIA “Disruptive Technology” Subverting Bill of Rights).
Of course, all of this secret and not so secret activity on the Virginia Tech campus and environs is not definitive evidence Cho Seung-Hui was a government produced mind-control assassin. However, it does indicate VT serves as a hub for experimental and prototype DoD technologies.
It is no secret the Pentagon has had a keen interest in electromagnetic weapons for some time. “Electronic mind-control research is not new,” CNN reported in 1985. “A scientific milestone in this area came in the 1960s when Dr. Jose Delgado demonstrated remote control over a charging bull.” Military affairs specialist Chuck DeCaro told CNN: a “scientist, who did not want his identity revealed … employed by the U.S. Government … has done secret RF weapons research. He believes that tests done with the [Soviet developed] Lida and similar machines prove that humans are susceptible to remote alterations of mood and awareness…. Certain kinds of weak electromagnetic signals work exactly like drugs, and so the promise is that anything you can do with drugs you could do with the right electromagnetic signal.” Dr. Robert Becker, a pioneer in the field of bioeffects of electromagnetism, added: “As far as I’m concerned, the potential that this has for producing a direct psychoactive effect upon the total American population is there, has never been disproven.”
The late professor Dr. Gerhard Beyer of Virginia Polytechnic Institute at Virginia Tech broke a significant part of the “magnetic code,” and no doubt this was of interest to DARPA and the Pentagon.

[!@#$%!]

^^ ever heard of that peculiar writing structure called "the paragraph"? cmon man! add some spaces!!

it krakks me up when people talk about things that "haven't been disproven" thought

sure, fuck, the kracken hasn't been disproven. so hasn't zeus.

i was fearing the moment when this thread would go off the deep end. it has arrived.

[noumenal]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=9647439

All 32 victims profiled.

[k-krack]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

sad day where I agree vehemently with ted nugent but, this is what he wrote for CNN today. read it with an open mind.

Who doesn't get this? Who has the audacity to demand unarmed helplessness? Who likes dead good guys?
I'll tell you who. People who tramp on the Second Amendment, that's who. People who refuse to accept the self-evident truth that free people have the God-given right to keep and bear arms, to defend themselves and their loved ones. People who are so desperate in their drive to control others, so mindless in their denial that they pretend access to gas causes arson, Ryder trucks and fertilizer cause terrorism, water causes drowning, forks and spoons cause obesity, dialing 911 will somehow save your life, and that their greedy clamoring to "feel good" is more important than admitting that armed citizens are much better equipped to stop evil than unarmed, helpless ones.

Fuck Rob, this is such a stupid thing to (agree with) say. Seriously, I'm not American, but the second ammendment is fucking bullshit, so primal in its nature that it's scary. Ted Nugent is a fucking trigger-happy wacko, and he is so obviously using this atrocity as a ploy to talk about how people that don't love their guns are pussies. Access to guns does not necessarily mean someone's goign to shoot it, BUT IT MAKES IT A HELL OF A LOT MORE LIKELY, especially with people like this Cho fella holding them. Which is not to say that there is no other way of getting a gun, BUT ANYBODY CAN GET A GUN AT THE DROP OF A HAT. THAT IS SERIOUSLY FUCKING ABSURD.