[jon boy]

when i was younger i was involved in an accidental shooting.

[Florya]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

very smart...i prove to wal mart that im a hunter. i come in dressed in cammo etc etc "what ya need this here gun for" they ask "rabbit huntin" i respond...PROOF!


or is it.

ya cant prove what yr going to do with something till AFTER yav already done it. ya can say yr going to do anything.....

No. Before you even get to Wal Mart you have to prove that you're not mentally ill, or a criminal and then you have to justify ownership of a lethal weapon. Then you need to prove that your gun will be stored securely and in a seperate place from your ammunition.
Then and only then should you be considered for a gun licence, and your application should be made public so that anyone that you have threatened to kill can object to it being granted.
Then, when and if your licence is granted, the weapon you are licenced for should be appropriate for it's declared use. For example, a .50 cal sniper rifle is not appropriate for rabbit hunting, and a fully automatic machine pistol is not appropriate for target shooting. Also the amount and type of ammunition that you are allowed to purchase should be part of the licence and the licence should need to be shown every time you want to buy a gun or ammo.

Yes it sounds like a long winded and time consuming process, and so it should be if it will stop lunatics going into gun shops and leaving with weapons only the military should be allowed to use, along with a sackful of 'cop killers' just because 200 or so years ago the Founding Fathers felt that it would be useful to have a group of armed citizens to defend their towns against the Brits. That role is now filled by your National Guard, which makes the original premise redundant.

[jon boy]

amen.

[sonicl]

If only more of the people in power, in all nations, had Florya's commonsense, the world could be a much much better place.

[quote=Florya]No. Before you even get to Wal Mart you have to prove that you're not mentally ill, or a criminal and then you have to justify ownership of a lethal weapon. Then you need to prove that your gun will be stored securely and in a seperate place from your ammunition.
Then and only then should you be considered for a gun licence, and your application should be made public so that anyone that you have threatened to kill can object to it being granted.
quote]



Yeah, but how are you goint to assest that someone has not got mental problems? Aren't a lot of people clever at hiding them? Seems all nicely put, but does it work out that way in reality? I doubt it does.

[jon boy]

so what would you do pork? what changes would you like to see made, if any?

that is not said angrily.

I'd change the whole structure of society, abolish the state and bring down capitalism to its knees, that's if i really had it my way. For now, i'd severely reduce unnecessary negativity from many sections of our culture, and give it a more realistic (which would include positive things, not just negative) sheen. I'm all for abolishing guns, still simply doing that is not particularly gonna resolve anything, unless you go at the root of why voilence between human beings exists in the first place.

[Florya]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Yeah, but how are you goint to assest that someone has not got mental problems? Aren't a lot of people clever at hiding them? Seems all nicely put, but does it work out that way in reality? I doubt it does.

Obviously you would check their medical records. That's what happens in the UK.
Of course you can't guarantee that a person won't develop mental problems in the future, and there is no way of knowing that the application for a gun license isn't the first sign of pending mental illness. That's why the application needs to be made public, so that people that know the applicant can be made aware of his/her intentions and object if they feel that allowing them to have a gun would be inappropriate.

[Florya]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

I'd change the whole structure of society, abolish the state and bring down capitalism to its knees, that's if i really had it my way. For now, i'd severely reduce unnecessary negativity from many sections of our culture, and give it a more realistic (which would include positive things, not just negative) sheen. I'm all for abolishing guns, still simply doing that is not particularly gonna resolve anything, unless you go at the root of why voilence between human beings exists in the first place.

Good luck with that Very Utopian of you.

Originally Posted by Florya

Obviously you would check their medical records. That's what happens in the UK.
Of course you can't guarantee that a person won't develop mental problems in the future, and there is no way of knowing that the application for a gun license isn't the first sign of pending mental illness. That's why the application needs to be made public, so that people that know the applicant can be made aware of his/her intentions and object if they feel that allowing them to have a gun would be inappropriate.

I mean, i'm totally with you on that. What i'm trying to say is that when tragedies like this happen, you normally get to know that there were flaws in the laws that were meant to prevent things like that from happening. That's all.

[Florya]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

I mean, i'm totally with you on that. What i'm trying to say is that when tragedies like this happen, you normally get to know that there were flaws in the laws that were meant to prevent things like that from happening. That's all.

The problem is that in the States there are no laws that would prevent things like VA Tech happening again, apart from the obvious law against murder. The worrying thing is the seeming reluctance of the American government to do anything to stop this from happening again.

George Bush needs to do more than furrow his brow and tell us how 'horrified' he is on national TV. He needs to take on the pro gun lobby and bring in legislation that will cause less death instead of more for a change.

The USA are certainly not the worst when it comes to murders:

#1 Colombia:0.617847 per 1,000 people
#2 South Africa:0.496008 per 1,000 people
#3 Jamaica:0.324196 per 1,000 people
#4 Venezuela:0.316138 per 1,000 people
#5 Russia:0.201534 per 1,000 people
#6 Mexico:0.130213 per 1,000 people
#7 Estonia:0.107277 per 1,000 people
#8 Latvia:0.10393 per 1,000 people
#9 Lithuania:0.102863 per 1,000 people
#10 Belarus:0.0983495 per 1,000 people
#11 Ukraine:0.094006 per 1,000 people
#12 Papua New Guinea:0.0838593 per 1,000 people
#13 Kyrgyzstan:0.0802565 per 1,000 people
#14 Thailand:0.0800798 per 1,000 people
#15 Moldova:0.0781145 per 1,000 people
#16 Zimbabwe:0.0749938 per 1,000 people
#17 Seychelles:0.0739025 per 1,000 people
#18 Zambia:0.070769 per 1,000 people
#19 Costa Rica:0.061006 per 1,000 people
#20 Poland:0.0562789 per 1,000 people
#21 Georgia:0.0511011 per 1,000 people
#22 Uruguay:0.045082 per 1,000 people
#23 Bulgaria:0.0445638 per 1,000 people
#24 United States:0.042802 per 1,000 people
#25 Armenia:0.0425746 per 1,000 people
#26 India:0.0344083 per 1,000 people
#27 Yemen:0.0336276 per 1,000 people
#28 Dominica:0.0289733 per 1,000 people
#29 Azerbaijan:0.0285642 per 1,000 people
#30 Finland:0.0283362 per 1,000 people
#31 Slovakia:0.0263303 per 1,000 people
#32 Romania:0.0250784 per 1,000 people
#33 Portugal:0.0233769 per 1,000 people
#34 Malaysia:0.0230034 per 1,000 people
#35 Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of:0.0229829 per 1,000 people
#36 Mauritius:0.021121 per 1,000 people
#37 Hungary:0.0204857 per 1,000 people
#38 Korea, South:0.0196336 per 1,000 people
#39 Slovenia:0.0179015 per 1,000 people
#40 France:0.0173272 per 1,000 people
#41 Czech Republic:0.0169905 per 1,000 people
#42 Iceland:0.0168499 per 1,000 people
#43 Australia:0.0150324 per 1,000 people
#44 Canada:0.0149063 per 1,000 people
#45 Chile:0.014705 per 1,000 people
#46 United Kingdom:0.0140633 per 1,000 people
#47 Italy:0.0128393 per 1,000 people
#48 Spain:0.0122456 per 1,000 people
#49 Germany:0.0116461 per 1,000 people
#50 Tunisia:0.0112159 per 1,000 people
#51 Netherlands:0.0111538 per 1,000 people
#52 New Zealand:0.0111524 per 1,000 people
#53 Denmark:0.0106775 per 1,000 people
#54 Norway:0.0106684 per 1,000 people
#55 Ireland:0.00946215 per 1,000 people
#56 Switzerland:0.00921351 per 1,000 people
#57 Indonesia:0.00910842 per 1,000 people
#58 Greece:0.0075928 per 1,000 people
#59 Hong Kong:0.00550804 per 1,000 people
#60 Japan:0.00499933 per 1,000 people
#61 Saudi Arabia:0.00397456 per 1,000 people
#62 Qatar:0.00115868 per 1,000 people

[jon boy]

i wonder if the NRA will have a meeting there anytime soon?

[nicfit]

porky, you must consider the different social conditions in each country of the list.

Also, there aren't enough cases of mass murders or enough victims to justify a ban on guns or more strict laws. I'm sure that they won't do anything about it.

Originally Posted by nicfit

porky, you must consider the different social conditions in each country of the list.

Sure, do you see an outcry for banning guns etc in those countries, though? No, you don't see that. Chit chat.

[sonicl]

But the slightly disturbing thing is that the USA is always held up as being the great example of a civilised nation, but you don't have to look all that much closer to see that it is anything but.

If America is truly such a civilised nation, surely it (and its citizens) should be able to find better solutions to its problems than bullets and guns.

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

thats just ignorent...some folks prefer to kill theyre own meat.

you ever skinned a deer? ya think that takes a small dick...???

please.

keep eating yr mcwendys.

You can buy food IN SHOPS, numpty.

[nicfit]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Sure, do you see an outcry for banning guns etc in those countries, though? No, you don't see that. Chit chat.

But I never saw those countries' presidents going around saying they are an example of civilisation. Plus, in USA you can easily and legally buy guns, while in most cases in those countries weapons are held illegally.

After 4000 years of taking harsh criticism from the Europeans and non, the USA seem less regarded as a civilised nation, and more like a deeply misunderstood country. You rarely hear about the fierce battles that the unions have to fight in order to keep some rights for the working classes(yes, they exist in the USA too) over there. The general stereotypes that the ever pompous European press is likely to spread, is the tiresome litany of the fat McDonald's muncher and very little else that is seriously insightful. Little you hear about the dramatic level of poverty etc, it's generally painted as MTV land, inhabited by crypto-wannabes and their blonde babes (just a joke crypto, no offence). And warmongers.