[the ikara cult]

Being a lifeless arse that i am, i found myself looking at the 100 Greatest Dutchmen poll the other day
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Grootste_Nederlander

and this man was no1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn

Is that actually true or is it some kind of Wikipedia terrorism? Cos he seems like a fairly controversial figure from what it says on Wikipedia.

[ploesj]

it's true. (i'm not dutch, belgian, but i know it's true)

[pokkeherrie]

It's true and it illustrates exactly why it's a rather pointless election. But to fully understand the outcome it has to be seen in the context of the time the election was held. There was a very tense atmosphere (and at times there still is) in the weeks/months after film maker Theo van Gogh was murdered. Many people saw him as a soulmate of Pim Fortuyn, another opinonated controversial figure and also murdered two years earlier. But you'd have to be even more of a "lifeless arse" to read yourself into that I guess. It will be interesting to see how historians will view the first half of this decade in our history though.

But yeah, it's a ridiculous outcome and the list on a whole really shows the lack of historical knowledge of the Dutch.

[king_buzzo]

38. Marco Borsato (Singer)

Hahahaha...

[pokkeherrie]

40. DJ Tiësto (DJ)

don't know if that's a "Haha" or a "Boohoo"...

[ploesj]

lists like that really make me want to cry. why do people always have to decide who's the best? blegh. i'm going to make a list of biggest dutch and belgian losers. any ideas of who should be on it?

[king_buzzo]

^ Herman, the big cooking guy. Jorinde mol.

[Trasher02]

Pim fortuyn was a fucking twat.
DJ Tiësto and Marco borsato. That list just wants to make me cry.

[pokkeherrie]

Originally Posted by ploesj

lists like that really make me want to cry. why do people always have to decide who's the best? blegh. i'm going to make a list of biggest dutch and belgian losers. any ideas of who should be on it?

this one for sure... biggest loser of the moment.

 

[Trasher02]

Hans Teeuwen (Comedian)
HANSJE TEEUWEUH

[Toilet & Bowels]

these are my favourites dutchsters:

solex
bosch
brueghel
famke jansen
the ex
van gogh
han bennink
edgar davids
botulistum
the people who made that comedy sketch about english sport
all the prostitutes

[pokkeherrie]

I thought you liked Johan Cruijff!

Brueghel is generally considered Belgian/Flemmish (although Belgium didn't exist at the time). It's not 100% sure if he was born in what's nowadays Belgium or Holland, but he lived in what's now Belgium.

[Пятхъдесят Шест]

Here's something a bit more worrisome:

Greatest Americans

#1 Ronald Reagan - 24% - named "Greatest American".
#2 Abraham Lincoln - 23.5%
#3 Martin Luther King, Jr. - 19.7% - named "Greatest African American"
#4 George Washington - 17.7%
#5 Benjamin Franklin - 14.9%
#6 George W. Bush - named "Greatest Living American"

Good grief. Who makes these lists?

[king_buzzo]

Jansen is the worst dutch person.

But Herman the Cook looks as if fries are gonna come out of his ears.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by pokkeherrie

I thought you liked Johan Cruijff!

Brueghel is generally considered Belgian/Flemmish (although Belgium didn't exist at the time). It's not 100% sure if he was born in what's nowadays Belgium or Holland, but he lived in what's now Belgium.

ok, i just assumed he was dutch, consider him striken from my list.

[the ikara cult]

The British version had Princess Di at number 3.... and this was about 3 years ago. And we voted some nobody from the Royal family as sports personality of the year this year. The twatty Daily Express readership is festering and waiting for the day.

[pokkeherrie]

This is what wikipedia writes about the Fortuyn result:

"In 2004, in a TV show, Fortuyn was chosen as De Grootste Nederlander ("Greatest Dutchman of all times"[9]), followed closely by William of Orange, the leader of the independence war that established the precursor to the present-day Netherlands. However, the election was widely regarded as not being representative as it was held through the internet and by phoning in, and so easily hijacked and probably heavily influenced by Fortuyn’s supporters, who had his violent death still fresh in their minds. Also, the murder of the equally controversial film director Theo van Gogh by a Muslim for comments critical of Islam had occurred a few days before the election and undoubtedly moved many voters to bring Fortuyn higher in the ranking. It later turned out that William of Orange had in fact received more votes, although they could not be counted until after the official closing time of the poll (and the proclamation of the winner), due to technical problems. The result has therefore remained uncorrected.".

It's pretty safe to say that Fortuyn wouldn't have gotten the title if Van Gogh hadn't been murdered just two weeks earlier, but even then I reckon he'd probably have made it easily to the top 10 or even top 5... there are plenty of fools who'd have voted for him either way. Oh well, at least Willem van Oranje and Willem Drees on 2 and 3 seem appropiate as people who actually earned their place in history. I doubt Fortuyn will have a prominent place in dutch history schoolbooks 50 years from now, other than that he was the victim of the first political murder in this country ever since the brothers De Witt got lynched in the 17th century.

I'm a bit surprised by that US list too... maybe the fact that Reagan died not too long before the list was elected had some influence on it? He certainly was an icon, but it's hard to defend that he actually made a good president. Coincidentally (unless the thread starter saw it too) I saw an item on the news just today that there was a similar election held in Portugal yesterday where they voted for noone less than good old dictator Salazar as the greatest Portuguese... with more than 40% of the votes!

[pokkeherrie]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

ok, i just assumed he was dutch, consider him striken from my list.

What about Martin Jol though? Is he any popular with the Spurs fans or not at all? I read somewhere he's nicknamed Tony Soprano.

[Toilet & Bowels]

i forgot jol, consider him added. he's popular, he's about the best manager we've had venables.