[d.sound]

Maybe I should put this in the "not enough gays" thread, but I want more people to see it. I'm noticing that even the "woke" generation are often misinformed.

- the large majority of trans women are lesbian. Something like 70% if I remember correctly. Some are bi or pan. Less are straight. Think about it: from birth you hate your body, you hate anything masculine. Extreme dysphoria. Why would you like that on other people? So transphobes - you have no reason to get uncomfortable. Odds are we are not attracted to you in any way. If you have trouble getting women to fuck you, trans women don't want to fuck you either. Get over yourself.

- this is not a cultural phenomenon. Transgender persons make up less than 2% of the population. It's simply we are no longer as oppressed by western puritanism so more people are coming out, akin to gays in the 90s.

- As all bodies have a spectrum of both testosterone and estrogen, this has always existed throughout all of history and throughout all cultures. Many cultures, especially in Asia have always recognized several genders. Some tribes they were shamans as they were seen to have the wisdom of both sexes.

- There is a biological factor. The current most popular medical understanding of why "the brain doesn't match the body" is that this spectrum of hormones is flipped during gestation of the fetus. The brain forms first. It gets majority estrogen so a "girl brain" is formed. Something switches and the rest of the body recieves majority testosterone through the rest of development. This is evidenced by MRI brain patterns.

- very few trans women have "fake" breasts in the sense of plastic surgery. Trans women take hormones. This redistributes weight from arms, etc, to hips and breasts, etc.

- trans women are not as strong as cis men. See above. Hormones play a large role in strength. We have the same capacities as cis women.

Never, ever, ever, EVER tell a trans woman "you're so lucky you don't get periods". That is incredibly insulting.

Body dysphoria encompasses everything, including a reproductive system. Even if we don't want kids we want a uterus, ovaries, eggs, everything. Yes, we understand periods are annoying, but since transitioning I often think about the fact that I will never be a mother. It makes me very sad.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by d.sound

- There is a biological factor. The current most popular medical understanding of why "the brain doesn't match the body" is that this spectrum of hormones is flipped during gestation of the fetus. The brain forms first. It gets majority estrogen so a "girl brain" is formed. Something switches and the rest of the body recieves majority testosterone through the rest of development. This is evidenced by MRI brain patterns.

this was a big "aha!" for me (& again thanks)

[The Gazpacho Gestapo]

one misconception of transgender womnen is that they are men

I disagree, yes they are transgender women

[d.sound]

I disagree, yes they are women. (they just had a fucked up birth.)

[The Gazpacho Gestapo]

Originally Posted by d.sound

I disagree, yes they are women. (they just had a fucked up birth.)

this was a big "aha!" for me (& again thanks)

women are like onions

they have many layers

[EVOLghost]

Good stuff. The dysphoria and the biological thing really provides a lot of insight.

I remember hearing that the hormones actually mess with bone density too lowering their strength n stuff.

[_tunic_]

Originally Posted by d.sound

the "woke" generation are often misinformed.

so, I was misinformed about what the woke generation is, never heard of it. And then I couldn't keep myself from thinking about wokees while reading the remainder of what you wrote. So I couldn't stop laughing. Sorry, I'm in this mood this morning. (and I first intended to embed that picture, but I imagined you would wanted to have me banned from this place)

And I know that it is extremely insulting, and I honestly don't mean it. Because that is exactly what you're facing in certain let's say classes of civility. I'll give an example.

Have you heard about this news reporter in Belgium last year? He's the anchor for the prime time news on public TV, he's in his late fifties, married and two adult kids. And suddenly he took a break for let's say half a year, and then she was a woman. Doing the exact same job, with full support from the TV channel. And she was very open on TV about her reasoning in various interviews. (and I edited that last line from masculine to feminine)

Belgium and Netherlands are neighboring countries, and naturally we already make fun of each other (why does a Belgian always have a pair of scissors in his car? To cut the corners). So this was the reaction in the Netherlands on TV on a show where they discuss football, the most watched programs for people who like football. Unfortunately for you this is in Dutch language and no subtitling.

René van der Gijp, former football player and now analyst and joker, announced that he would from now on go on as Renate. Next to him is Johan Boskamp, former player and trainer especially in Belgium. Those two are usually very funny, but I dislike that moustache guy. I watched that show occasionally, but now I stopped.


thank you for being open, and giving this explanation. It is very learning. And your last line made me cry


I don't know where else to put this, so I'll add this here:
have you heard about what they did in Russia with the Elton John movie? They cut out all the gay scenes
That is so insulting. I can in a way understand that they cut out the sex scene, but to remove the end title card because they don't want to tell that he is married with children

[The Gazpacho Gestapo]

im drunk rn and there was a transgender woman at a diner i frequent



and i feel the need to preface this post with the fact that while i may not fully understand transgenderism, i fully support people's decisions to live their own lives and feel every single person on the planet holds more knowledge than me on one thing or another so i give them intellectual respect just out of that


still i feel as though i have so many questions


for instance i just learned that transgender and non-binary were different


also i must say a lot of transgender people are obviously transgender and not cisgender female - is it offensive to point out that this is routinely apparent? like i do respect that you may self-identify as female but to me you definitely look like someone who was born a male and felt more female so thats the side you express - therefore your appearance is somewhere in between


white liberals get so afraid to ask questions, and i hope i dont offend anyone, but like is this a sticking point as a transgender individual?


sorry im hammered

[choc e-Claire]

1. They're different but similar. Trans people (like Danielle) do identify as male or female, but the one that wasn't what they were born as. Non-binary people (like me) don't really identify with either, and commonly use they/them pronouns (I don't, but I'm a mess).

2. That's massively offensive. I'm acutely aware that I don't appear overly feminine, and the last thing I need is well-meaning people commenting on it

[The Gazpacho Gestapo]

but there are also cisgendered women who appear more masculine than feminine as well

and then there are people who don't mind being somewhere in between, like non-binary women with beards or whatever

i guess i wont try to pinpoint the difference, and i do apologize

it was a very drunk post, i understand it is an insanely nuanced issue and frankly i think im too dumb to understand it all


but also fwiw, i didnt comment on the issue to anyone in person, i thought this thread was meant as an educational thing. like there's a reason cisgendered and transgendered women are distinguished from one another, right? ii dont really get it tbh. like i get that you're all women from a mental perspective


if im apologizing on this account, i hope u understand that its sincere

sorry. i put my foot in my mouth

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by choc e-Claire

1. the one that wasn't what they were born as.

i think what you meant to say was “wasn’t what they were assigned at birth”

if i understood danielle’s comments correctly (i think i did) transgender fetal development produces mismatched brains and bodies, thus transgender people are born trans, it’s just that we don’t see the brains, and we assign genders per the visible appearances.

accurate language is essential, and its misuse is part of the problem here: to say one was “born” one thing and then “transitions” to another i think mischaracterizes the whole thing, as if it were a mere matter of choice , or caprice, or mere psychology.

ontogeny is a process, not a moment. let’s try to avoid folk notions to explain science.

[d.sound]

"passing" is a sensitive subject for transgender men and women. I get "ma'am" 80% of the time, men open doors for me, they look at me with attraction. Still I haven't learned to modify my voice so I can see that flicker in the eye when people realize I'm born male. When I get sir'ed it is upsetting. I like to shoot the shit with people. The owner of a local record store is super nice, I always enjoy talking to him. However he always says "thanks for stopping in man" or something like that. It's getting to the point where I cringe when I walk into the store.

If you see what you know is a man, but they are dressed entirely in women's clothing head to toe, wearing women's accessories and make up. Don't say sir etc. While "dude" is gender neutral these days, most trans girls don't like it.

If you don't know if you should use male or female pronouns, don't use them at all. It's not hard.

[choc e-Claire]

I came out in a group chat for one of my classes last night...
...and regretted it waking up this morning. Now I'm scared and anxious and I'm not sure where to go.

 

[EVOLghost]

but why?

[choc e-Claire]

Originally Posted by EVOLghost

but why?

I honestly think I jumped the gun, and I'm not certain enough of myself to start living like this. I'm going to try and talk with that class's teacher (I sent him an email yesterday saying he could start calling me Claire, but I want to retract that).

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by choc e-Claire

I honestly think I jumped the gun, and I'm not certain enough of myself to start living like this. I'm going to try and talk with that class's teacher (I sent him an email yesterday saying he could start calling me Claire, but I want to retract that).

not sure if this will be useful to you, but here it goes

i‘ve written a bunch of university papers in my life. oodles. millions. well not so many but often you find yourself unable to write on the topic of your choosing (or assignment).

one useful strategy in some cases is to write out the difficulty, meaning: you write about why you can’t write what you want. it’s a little bit like when you say “i’m speechless”. no, you’re not, you’re actually saying “i am...” etc, but you’re stating the difficulty of finding the right words.

so maybe, instead of making clearcut declarations, you can actually discuss how difficult in itself is to make such declarations? in other words, i guess, profess your ambiguity?

i think people could understand and sympathize with that. if there’s something a tormented teenager can understand, it’s torment itself.

okay. like i said, i make no guarantees. but maybe worth considering.

[choc e-Claire]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

maybe, instead of making clearcut declarations, you can actually discuss how difficult in itself is to make such declarations? in other words, i guess, profess your ambiguity?

That's pretty good thinking, actually. Just had a talk with said teacher, and one of the school wellbeing people.
The plan is, in tomorrow's class, he'll have a chat to them and basically say (on my behalf) that I'm exploring gender identity, and I've trialled some stuff out, but that I'm not prepared to go any further and that it'd be greatly appreciated if the class kept quiet about it.

I wanna vanish.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by choc e-Claire

That's pretty good thinking, actually. Just had a talk with said teacher, and one of the school wellbeing people.
The plan is, in tomorrow's class, he'll have a chat to them and basically say (on my behalf) that I'm exploring gender identity, and I've trialled some stuff out, but that I'm not prepared to go any further and that it'd be greatly appreciated if the class kept quiet about it.

I wanna vanish.

don’t vanish. courage is an everyday practice. you got this.

also, btw, i really, but REALLY liked danielle’s series of explanations that started this thread. they were super rational and eye opening. have not heard better actually—not even from academics.

i assume others might like to understand some of those things as well.

and a little cribbing goes a long way. a lotof cribbing, even further. e.g., the wheel, gunpowder, etc., we just copy

[choc e-Claire]

It happened - it was awkward, it was embarrassing, I don't want to talk to anyone, but it's out there

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by choc e-Claire

It happened - it was awkward, it was embarrassing, I don't want to talk to anyone, but it's out there

good—congrats

mandatory applause gif: