[Alex's Trip]

I want this thread to go away now.

[!@#$%!]

sorry about your asshole dad.

in a perfect world, he wouldn't be an asshole.

[Alex's Trip]

I would also be "happy, get married, and have children"

God. I don't even know how to react to what he said.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Alex's Trip

I would also be "happy, get married, and have children"

God. I don't even know how to react to what he said.

pissed off, of course. what other way there is? he's basically telling you that you're not ok, and that he doesn't accept you as you are.

well maybe i could sugarcoat that shit, but no, because in your gut you know that's what he was saying. now you just need to align your conscience to that truth.

if you were a little baby i'd say you're doomed. since they've kept you slightly infantilized i'll say you're in hot water. you depend on the people who reject you.

the only solution is to beat some sense into the old man. ha ha ha. but seriously. if he wants to alienate you and cause you all manner of emotional problems, he's doing exactly what he needs to do.

i am not sure however he's mature enough to accept that which challenges the fantasies of perfection under which he covers his shame. (wow, that's deep). in other words, watch bill & ted, same story there. in other words, your father is not mature enough to provide a healthy father figure for you at this point. he's got issues of his own.

think of a mentor? you know, a successful queer who can teach you that you're alright and how to be a gay grownup. but your dad, he's out of his depth i'm afraid. so yeah, the other solution is to grow more independent of your family and find a new psychological "home". a healthy one, of course.

[avantgarde1]

yr dad knows who rufus wainwright is? damn... my dad listens to barry manilow & olivia newton john.

[Alex's Trip]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

pissed off, of course. what other way there is? he's basically telling you that you're not ok, and that he doesn't accept you as you are.

well maybe i could sugarcoat that shit, but no, because in your gut you know that's what he was saying. now you just need to align your conscience to that truth.

...

I am pissed off, but there is more that can't be articulated at the moment. It's always been there, but I guess that truth hasn't seemed that obvious before.

Originally Posted by avantgarde1

yr dad knows who rufus wainwright is? damn... my dad listens to barry manilow & olivia newton john.

It is only because I listen to Wainwright.

[Anngella]

That's pretty lame. I say tell him how it is. How it pisses you off etc. He should get over being disappointed about it and start to just fucking accept it. Like !@#$%! said, if things don't work out you should just try to move on from it. He obviously won't change his mind, and it's his loss.

[avantgarde1]

oh, ok. still pretty funny though. although one time i was on a trip w/ my dad & he was drunk and he was totally digging interpol's antics album. that was fucking sureal.

[Alex's Trip]

Originally Posted by Anngella

That's pretty lame. I say tell him how it is. How it pisses you off etc. He should get over being disappointed about it and start to just fucking accept it. Like !@#$%! said, if things don't work out you should just try to move on from it. He obviously won't change his mind, and it's his loss.

I did. I told him I wouldn't want to change.

But he just keeps trying to explain himself until I agree with him or something.

He says he accepts it, but I don't know. He obviously would be happier if things were different. Is that accepting? Not to me.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Alex's Trip

I am pissed off, but there is more that can't be articulated at the moment. It's always been there, but I guess that truth hasn't seemed that obvious before.

well man the struggle to be accepted by the father figure is a mythical one.

fathers want male sons to perpetuate themselves, any deviation from the norm is met with disapproval. it's not just a matter of sexual preference though-- think of artistic kids of sports-crazy fathers, untalented kids of overachievers, right wing children of hippie parents, etc, etc.

few fathers are mature enough to let their kids be and accept them and support them as they are. it's either neglect (irresponsible parents) or control (neurotic parents). you got #2.

now that they can't make you in their own (idealized) image, yes, you are going to 'disappoint" them. just like you would if you got a B in your report card.

with matters of sexual orientation things get even more hairy, because our conceptions of gender are very narrow and limited due to the cultural poverty of our monotheistic religions.

where things get fucked up (your case) is when parents try to compensate for their own perceived deficiencies by breeding "superchildren". in other words, you're carrying the burden of your dad's insecurities and unconscious fears, and that's why you're the golden boy, the overachiever, the straight A student. as long as you do that, it's a sign that they are "ok"., everything works. mess up and oops! the monster is out of the box, your parents shame (not your responsibility) takes over them and they become crazy.

the way i reacted against that shit was by turning into a slacker by design. i somehow perceived the 'trap" behind grades/approval and decided to shirk my duties and throw it all to fuck. but that's a long story i'm not ready to share on the interwebs. nor do i suggest you do the same. each has their own path.

go ahead and please read alice miller's classic, "the drama of the gifted child". oh i know it's a horrible title, but excellent stuff regarding the need of children to please their parents (pleasing the parents = survival), and how smart kids are particularly sensitive to that, and deform themselves, even lose themselves in the process.

but anyway,get ready because it's going to be a war. you're at an age when you're trying to become yourself, and what you are to become doesn't please the bosses. be happy though, because it will be a good and productive and necessary war. you can't be the golden boy forever without becoming a robot. the war for your own identity/independence/etc. i going to make you a person, so that's the good news.

anyway, im ranting. i have a headache and i need sleep. but don't worry, you're smart, you'll manage, provided you are committed to see the truth and not tell yourself lies.

[Alex's Trip]

I don't want their acceptance anymore. I want out.

Unfortunately, my ticket out is my fucking grades.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Alex's Trip

I don't want their acceptance anymore. I want out.

Unfortunately, my ticket out is my fucking grades.

well that's ok. you might make peace when you're 50 or maybe never or maybe a lot sooner than that. who knows? but what's important is how you value yourself, regardless of other people's opinions.

and yeah, stick to your good grades, and find some mentors, as i was saying. you don't need to hang around with people who want to tell you that you're not ok. sad but true. let them buy a dog or something.

but i have to say though (this in the back of my mind), if your dad had any idea of what he's doing to you, he might not do that. if he knows but he can't help himself, he's got issues of his own to deal with. if he doesn't know, however, you might want to let him know. he might say yes and do a dance and still condemn you, though. but if you think it's worth a try, you should tell him.

discussing these sort of "explosive" issues however is so very tricky. i for example go apeshit easily. but it's always worth a try.

anyway i need to sleep. best wishes man.

[Alex's Trip]

GOod night. Thanks.

[cryptowonderdruginvogue]

in a perfect world, i'd be sleeping with Scarlett Johansson

[cryptowonderdruginvogue]

also, just give your dad two fingers

 

[floatingslowly]

although I don't think my son will be gay (opposed to his cousin who will obviously come out lesbian in a few years), it wouldn't make me feel any different about him.

that said, I hope he doesn't "turn out to be" gay.

not because of any kind of prejudice on my part, but it doesn't appear to be an "easy" lifestyle to live.

Originally Posted by swa(y)

i dont know yr dad...and i could very well be wrong....but it sounds to me like he was trying to talk about it, but didnt know how to do so.

sweet three-eyed jeezuz, I agree with (s)way.

[Rob Instigator]

that sucks, but you have to see where he is coming from man. at least he still TALKS to you dude! so many of my gay friends have been completely ostracized by their parents or family. Your dad sounds like he is trying to come to grips with it all. give him time.

and if he acts up tell him you got your "gay genes" from him.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

in a perfect world we wouldnt refer to older people who are obviously uncomfortable with gays, as assholes. after all...they are uncomfortable with gays for a reason....as gays are gay for a reason.

i dont know yr dad...and i could very well be wrong....but it sounds to me like he was trying to talk about it, but didnt know how to do so.

and its kinda unfair that ya;d call him an asshole for saying "yeah, i wish you werent gay" when YOU asked him the question. atleast hes a cool enough dad to give ya an honest answer...and opposed to a dad that pretended as if he didnt care about the fact that you were gay, when all actuality he did.

id rather someone tell me they hate me...or tell me they dont like whatever trait i have...as opposed to someone that faked like whatever trait because theyre in a postiion to where they feel like they are supposed to.

theres a kid....or was a kid...from macon, ga...near where i live. he told his parents he was gay (if i remember he was 15-16 years old) they more or less disowned him. they resented the fact he was gay. thay gave him alot of shit for it...that kid hung himself in a parking garage downtown. there was police tape up for awhile...lazy bastards sorta cut it off as oposed to ripping/untying it...so there were these little piece of police/do not enter tape tied to these thick concrete posts that held up the garage.

yr dad doesnt seem like a bad duyde from what i can gather...he just seems uncoftable. if ya wanna be out of the closet, thats something yr going to have to embrace. you will run into people that will HATE you, and they have that right....just as much right as you do to hate them right back for them hating you for being gay. thats how the world works. i dont mind that so much, as long as people can leave violence out of it.

i don't know where you live, or what treatment you're used to receiving, but alex's dad is not some uneducated yahoo dinosaur. he's "young" enough to play video games. he should know better. what he said is wrong, and insulting, and not the way to talk to your kid.

i'm willing to modify my statement to say "in a perfect world your dad wouldn't have acted like an asshole" because the truth is, it was an act of assholity, but he seems to be cool in other ways, so one can separate the action from the "being". so yeah he's not an asshole but he acted like one.
end of story.

the fact that there are some cavern yahoos out there who abuse their children doesn't make it any better. this is an extreme comparison, but it's like saying to a victim of abuse "hey, at least he didn't kill ya".

to make excuses for this kind of behavior and twist your mind until you find this treatment "acceptable" is psychologically unhealthy.

[floatingslowly]

in a perfect world, I wish that I had been born right-handed.

left-handed people have to deal with all kinds of shit that you "norms" don't.


!@#!$%!@: just because the guy might not understand gay people so well, and might not be acting appropriate to Alex's feelings, doesn't make him a uneducated yahoo. ignorance does not always spawn from lack of intelligence.

I think it really says a lot that he's trying to talk to his son about it (although he might not know how). too many gay people I've known get completely disowned. he should count his blessings.

PS: leave video games out of this ya' nazi.

[Savage Clone]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

in a perfect world, I wish that I had been born right-handed.

left-handed people have to deal with all kinds of shit that you "norms" don't.

Aw, relax.
All that means is that you've got Satan's stamp of approval.
You can get all kinds of street cred with that shit.