Here's Something Interesting

noumenal · 11.13.2007, 06:12 PM

A review by Richard Taruskin (yes, THE Taruskin, author of The Oxford History of Western Music) of 3 books:

Who Needs Classical Music? Cultural Choice and Musical Value
By Julian Johnson
Classical Music, Why Bother? Hearing the World of Contemporary Culture Through a Composer's Ears
By Joshua Fineberg
Why Classical Music Still Matters
By Lawrence Kramer

http://www.tnr.com/story.html?id=f38...4-e0638e30448a

Any of you assholes want to discuss?

!@#$%! · 11.13.2007, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noumenal

A review by Richard Taruskin (yes, THE Taruskin, author of The Oxford History of Western Music) of 3 books:

Who Needs Classical Music? Cultural Choice and Musical Value
By Julian Johnson
Classical Music, Why Bother? Hearing the World of Contemporary Culture Through a Composer's Ears
By Joshua Fineberg
Why Classical Music Still Matters
By Lawrence Kramer

Any of you assholes want to discuss?

sorry, i'm painfully unequipped for that

noumenal · 11.13.2007, 06:29 PM

No, seriously, I don't know what you mean--it's an extremely readable article. No mumbo-jumbo or jargon, and it relates somewhat to what people talk about in here - at least I think it does. (This was published in The New Republic for a general audience. Taruskin is kind of a douche - it's funny....)

SpectralJulianIsNotDead · 11.13.2007, 06:30 PM

I'm more of a casual consumer of classical music, but I'm gonna pick up some Phillip Glass and Kronos Quartet soon. There is some on vinyl in my Dad's antique shop. I need a better record player though, mine feedsback and plays too fast.

I see they have Baby Einstein Mozart, and certainly Mozart and Beethoven will never die. You could probably include Tchaikovsky and Bach in there too.

But it will be a shame if the next generation has never heard Liszt, Orff, Stravinsky, and others.

When people here Beethoven or Mozart they think it is very beautiful sounding or very pretty, and that is what they seem to relegate classical music to. But people don't realize that a lot of classical music can be much more intense, and at times chaotic.

The tradition of classical music is becoming lost though. High schools mainly have brass and woodwind orchestras, which is a shame. Cartoons used to have great instrumental compositions accompanying them. I love the music in old looney toons and the like. The Marx brothers movies had very much the same sort of stuff. I believe in A Day at the Races Chico plays a very powerful Rachmaninoff piece.

SpectralJulianIsNotDead · 11.13.2007, 06:41 PM

where is the article?

noumenal · 11.13.2007, 06:43 PM

OH NO, who's the asshole now? Yeah, I forgot the link. Sorry, I fixed it.

SpectralJulianIsNotDead · 11.13.2007, 11:49 PM

oh man this is a loooong article.

I found this funny. . .

Quote:

I am pretty sure that this Franco-Russian repertoire reflected the future First Lady's taste. While a junior at George Washington University studying in Paris, Jacqueline Bouvier had won a Vogue magazine essay contest on "People I Wish I Had Known" with an entry on Oscar Wilde, Charles Baudelaire, and--most germane--Serge de Diaghilev. When Stravinsky heard about this list from President Kennedy at a White House dinner, he concluded that she had been researching pederasty.

teehee

SpectralJulianIsNotDead · 11.14.2007, 12:23 AM

Well, I'll have to reread, but the evaluation of its decline seems pretty well thought out.

I'm not really sure what you'd like to discuss from the article, but I'd assume it would be the decline of classical music.

He cited the culture, but I think connotations of class and culture changing during the 1960s is only part of it. The use of classical music in popular culture has devolved it to the point of being thought of as soundtrack music instead of as simply music. It is hard to listen to Ode To Joy without thinking of the commercial uses of the melody to sell us a product. To listen to Oh Fortuna from Carmina Burana without thinking of one of the many epic movies that it was used in (although the use of it in Excalibur was quite tasteful in my opinion) is damn near impossible. Listening to the Nutcracker at times painfully reminds me of horrible Christmas movies and TV advertisements.

Modern classical music suffers the same fate. Composers either compose scores for movies, or they are out of work.

I think there is a lot more to it than that of course. Recordings contribute to it too, as well as the blurring of the lines between musician and composer.

The only argument I could make for the importance of classical is that some of it is very good. Taruskin seems to point out that other reasons given for its importance are part of why classical music is in the state it is in.

11.13.2007, 06:12 PM	#1
noumenal expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,855	A review by Richard Taruskin (yes, THE Taruskin, author of The Oxford History of Western Music) of 3 books: Who Needs Classical Music? Cultural Choice and Musical Value By Julian Johnson Classical Music, Why Bother? Hearing the World of Contemporary Culture Through a Composer's Ears By Joshua Fineberg Why Classical Music Still Matters By Lawrence Kramer http://www.tnr.com/story.html?id=f38...4-e0638e30448a Any of you assholes want to discuss?
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.13.2007, 06:29 PM	#3
noumenal expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,855	No, seriously, I don't know what you mean--it's an extremely readable article. No mumbo-jumbo or jargon, and it relates somewhat to what people talk about in here - at least I think it does. (This was published in The New Republic for a general audience. Taruskin is kind of a douche - it's funny....)
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.13.2007, 06:30 PM	#4
SpectralJulianIsNotDead invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,409	I'm more of a casual consumer of classical music, but I'm gonna pick up some Phillip Glass and Kronos Quartet soon. There is some on vinyl in my Dad's antique shop. I need a better record player though, mine feedsback and plays too fast. I see they have Baby Einstein Mozart, and certainly Mozart and Beethoven will never die. You could probably include Tchaikovsky and Bach in there too. But it will be a shame if the next generation has never heard Liszt, Orff, Stravinsky, and others. When people here Beethoven or Mozart they think it is very beautiful sounding or very pretty, and that is what they seem to relegate classical music to. But people don't realize that a lot of classical music can be much more intense, and at times chaotic. The tradition of classical music is becoming lost though. High schools mainly have brass and woodwind orchestras, which is a shame. Cartoons used to have great instrumental compositions accompanying them. I love the music in old looney toons and the like. The Marx brothers movies had very much the same sort of stuff. I believe in A Day at the Races Chico plays a very powerful Rachmaninoff piece.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.13.2007, 06:41 PM	#5
SpectralJulianIsNotDead invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,409	where is the article?
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.13.2007, 06:43 PM	#6
noumenal expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,855	OH NO, who's the asshole now? Yeah, I forgot the link. Sorry, I fixed it.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.14.2007, 12:23 AM	#8
SpectralJulianIsNotDead invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,409	Well, I'll have to reread, but the evaluation of its decline seems pretty well thought out. I'm not really sure what you'd like to discuss from the article, but I'd assume it would be the decline of classical music. He cited the culture, but I think connotations of class and culture changing during the 1960s is only part of it. The use of classical music in popular culture has devolved it to the point of being thought of as soundtrack music instead of as simply music. It is hard to listen to Ode To Joy without thinking of the commercial uses of the melody to sell us a product. To listen to Oh Fortuna from Carmina Burana without thinking of one of the many epic movies that it was used in (although the use of it in Excalibur was quite tasteful in my opinion) is damn near impossible. Listening to the Nutcracker at times painfully reminds me of horrible Christmas movies and TV advertisements. Modern classical music suffers the same fate. Composers either compose scores for movies, or they are out of work. I think there is a lot more to it than that of course. Recordings contribute to it too, as well as the blurring of the lines between musician and composer. The only argument I could make for the importance of classical is that some of it is very good. Taruskin seems to point out that other reasons given for its importance are part of why classical music is in the state it is in.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|