For all you deluded"bottled-water aficionados"

Rob Instigator · 11.20.2007, 12:50 PM

from ESPN.com (of all places!)

TMQ -- Best If Read By Wednesday Morning: Recently, I was sitting at a boring staff meeting -- I mean, at a vital staff meeting -- and drinking bottled water. I looked at the cap, which was stamped BEST BY 11-14-09. Not best by 2009 or even November 2009, best by Nov. 14, 2009. What, exactly, would begin to happen inside this bottle on Nov. 15, 2009? Ever more products that ought to have a shelf life measured in decades if not centuries, such as water packaged in glass, are stamped with near-term expiration dates in hopes you'll throw them away and buy more. This isn't just a minor concern about bottled water and soda. Studies have shown that most over-the-counter and prescription drugs in solid pill form remain safe and potent for many years past the expiration date, yet people throw away expired pills and spend big money to replace them.

AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast
If water has an expiration date, and the universe is 14 billion years old, doesn't that mean all the water in the universe expired 13.999999 billion years ago?

Bottled water note 1: Check the PiMag Aqua Pour System from trendy appliances brand Nikken, which employs "an ingenious gravity flow system." When you open the spigot, gravity causes the water to flow down into your cup. Ingenious!

Bottled water note 2: Fiji water really comes from Fiji -- think of the fossil resources used to ship it. Charles Fishman reports in Fast Company magazine that last year Americans drank 28.3 gallons per capita of bottled water, versus 1.6 gallons per capita in 1976. The 2006 figure is an 18-fold increase in three decades, and it works out to 226 16-ounce water bottles per American per year. People buy bottled water in New York City, though its tap water, which comes from upstate reservoirs, tastes delicious and contains no contamination. Fishman pointed out that bottled water is even popular in San Francisco, though San Francisco tap water comes from Yosemite National Park and tastes really good. If San Francisco tap water were sold as Yosemite Water and cost too much, then people would want it!

The bottled water craze began in Europe, where civic water is not as pure as here and often "hard" -- in much of Europe, you're smart to drink bottled water or to use a Brita filter. In America, where most tap water is of high quality and good flavor, bottled water is in many uses just another frill; and it takes substantial amounts of petroleum to manufacture the plastic in the bottles, plus ship bulk water around the country. Imagine telling the 1 billion people worldwide who lack access to clean drinking water that Americans use clear, pure drinking-quality water to wash their cars, then drink from water bottles and throw the bottles away. That last is my feared real explanation for the bottled water craze -- we've become too lazy to fill a glass, drink and return the glass to the kitchen. We want to throw the bottle away.

Bottled water note 3: A recent spate of news accounts pointed out that two major brands are not spring water but, rather, tap water that has been through an extra purification cycle. After these reports, the International Bottled Water Association bought full-page ads in The New York Times and other major newspapers, extolling its member companies' products. This is another example of TMQ's Law of Corporate Scandals: Bad for Everyone But Newspapers. Whenever there is a corporate scandal, the involved party buys full-page newspaper ads to state its case. Here, the IBWA explains that hard-hitting annual facilities inspections are conducted by "an independent, highly qualified technical auditing and compliance firm" that, ahem, works on contract to the IBWA.

!@#$%! · 11.20.2007, 12:53 PM

<Homer>
mmmm..... frills...
</Homer>

SuchFriendsAreDangerous · 11.20.2007, 12:54 PM

It’s not the water that has an expiration date, it is the plastic bottles.

"What, exactly, would begin to happen inside this bottle on Nov. 15, 2009?”

well, the standards for the cleanliness of these bottles is measured to a low degree, and so these expiration dates are there because the bottles and cans are acknowledged as being only clean to a degree, and so after this time, the bacteria, fungus and even algae that are already living in the bottles and cans when they were filled and sealed, could have grown to a dangerous or at least distasteful proportion. Of course that is a big if.... think of the expiration dates as security deposits for the companies in case some of these 'expired' bottles should become infectious. But still companies spend millions of dollars a year taking back expired cans and bottles as "out of code" stock, and there are rigorous fines imposed on companies or retailers who have 'out of code' products on the shelf.

Rob Instigator · 11.20.2007, 01:34 PM

boy that's fucking nasty to think about.

!@#$%! · 11.20.2007, 02:27 PM

yeah. drink from glass.

val-holla-ing · 11.20.2007, 02:29 PM

fuck bottled water. i drink my good, cancerous, louisiana tap water like it's going out of style.

StevOK · 11.20.2007, 03:06 PM

mmmm, dinosaur piss.

mangajunky · 11.20.2007, 03:11 PM

I drink my tap water but since my building is over a hundred years old I worry a bit about lead pipes. My tap tastes good.

The worst of the bottled waters is Dasani which is made by the coca-cola company. It's "purified" tap water with salt added. Why do they add salt?

!@#$%! · 11.20.2007, 03:14 PM

for flavor? so it doesnt taste like distilled water.

i'll drink dasani if im desperate.

mangajunky · 11.20.2007, 03:20 PM

heh heh - spunk

tesla69 · 11.20.2007, 04:48 PM

* Supposedly freezing the plastic bottles releases deadly gases which mix with the water.

* Fuji water tastes really crisp. I love it. They probably add sugar.

* For the most part American tap water is safe to begin with, but the added flouride and chlorine may not be on some people's safe list. especially flouride which seems to be a huge scam that now the System can't get out of - it'll be another of those "Butter is deadly use safe margarine" scams.

* So I'm walking around NYC, where am I going to get tap water? Go in to a bar and ask for it? Yeah right. How long will it be before the sign "water is for customers only" goes up next to "Bathrooms are for customers only". I've been told all my life by the Spectacle that public water fountains are ground zero for bacteria and germs.

Oh well soon the price of oil will be so high the plastic bottle will cost more than the water or shipping it.

atari 2600 · 11.20.2007, 05:03 PM

The guy came the other day and brought me a new cooler machine and took the old one away as he was delivering new five gallon spring water bottles for it. The new cooler machine is made in Mexico. The one he took was made in China and is being recalled. As it turns out, the model is known to cause electrical fires.

Rob Instigator · 11.20.2007, 05:40 PM

fluoride does prevent cavities. there is no "scam" about it.

chlorination of the water prevents algae growth in water resting in underground pipes.

it is all wonderful stuff.

don;t know about new york, but most every bar I ever been to has free water for anyone.

!@#$%! · 11.20.2007, 07:16 PM

yeah, but theres no algae in my bottled water either
and no chlorine.

and true about the fluoride, but ive got plenty of fluoride in my toothpaste--no reason to have to piss it. the effect of fluoride is on rubbing against the teeth, not infusing your veins with it.

anyway, read up on fluoride --fun stuff

EyeballGrowth · 11.20.2007, 07:26 PM

Bottled water is 100% scam. All the water in those bottles comes from a fucking tap, no question about it. It's exactly the same as tap water, no difference. I sell about 30 24packs of that stuff to people everyday and it pains me to do so.

!@#$%! · 11.20.2007, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeballGrowth

Bottled water is 100% scam. All the water in those bottles comes from a fucking tap, no question about it. It's exactly the same as tap water, no difference. I sell about 30 24packs of that stuff to people everyday and it pains me to do so.

WHAT tap? i lived through the DC water crisis around i think it was 1998-- the water was filthy and they had to add extra chlorine to kill the bacteria; the chlorine reacted with the organic compounds in the pipes and created toxic gases-- they recommended you showered with the windows open so you wouldn't pass out.

some bottled water is certainly crap-- walrats for example sells "municipal water" in bottles from san antonio tx. other spring waters etc will be different.

one important thing to consider is that bottled water cannot contain chlorine. maybe it's removed by filtration or maybe it didn't have it in the first place.

i some locations, maybe bottle water offers only a marginal benefit, but i don't trust my municipality. besides, im made mostly of water, and i don't mind paying the extra $ to ensure that my body composition is not high in halogens. i also have a filter that i use for cooking. maybe i could use that for drinking as well but im extra paranoid.

an interesting fact--my cat, who knows nothing of marketing, LOVES bottled water-- his favorite one is volvic-- i shit you not.

anyway, if i ever go through your checkout, please 1) be happy that i'm kicking in money to cover your paycheck 2) be assured i'm happy to spend my money on it, and nobody is making me

Cantankerous · 11.20.2007, 10:59 PM

here's news for you geeks:
it's fucking bottled tap water. these people are making a killing on TAP WATER.

atari 2600 · 11.21.2007, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cantankerous

here's news for you geeks:
it's fucking bottled tap water. these people are making a killing on TAP WATER.

In some cases, yeah, bottled water is merely bottled tap water.

Some say it's as much as forty percent of all bottled water comes from a tap.

For instance, Pepsi Co., who owns Aquafina, recently admitted that its product is tap water.

This controversy has been around for years, but is really blowing up now.
I have to say, I do agree with much of this article:
Hatin' on plastic water bottles is all the rage

Forget SUVs and Styrofoam: hip-to-the-times green folk are directing their ire at plastic water bottles. In the last few months, the energy-intensiveness of bottled water -- 1.5 million barrels of oil go into making the bottles for the U.S. market each year, and oodles more to transporting the H2O -- has seeped into the public consciousness. Big-city mayors have urged residents to stop hitting the bottle, and highfalutin restaurants are serving filtered tap water. Advocates point out that water flows freely in nearly every U.S. home, while 38 billion recyclable plastic vessels are trashed every year. Hoping to cash in on the latest consumer trend, Nestle will roll out its water brands in a bottle made of 30 percent less plastic, while Nalgene has teamed up with water-filtration giant Brita to launch a bottle-reduction campaign called FilterForGood. Then again, some Nalgenes and other hard plastic containers contain the icky chemical compound bisphenol A. Which is why we stick with martinis.

straight to the source: Los Angeles Times, Alana Semuels, 14 Aug 2007

straight to the source: The New York Times, Alex Williams, 12 Aug 2007

see also, in Grist: So Long, San Pellegrino
see also, in Grist: Umbra advises on plastic water bottles

California may require labels on bottled water

atari 2600 · 11.21.2007, 10:56 AM

At any rate, the water I buy is spring water that has been ozonated. And the containers are five gallon bottles that are reused over and over again.
Although it is true that I should probably just buy my own ozonator and save money in the long run, I like using the hot and cold running water cooler.

Ozone as a Detoxifier
Ozone is widely recognised for its detoxifying affects upon the body. A simple ozonator provides this benefit for free. Ozonated water is being trialed in the Compassion Response Network trials as part of two of the treatments;
Zapper + colloidal silver + ozonated water,
Dr Bob Beck treatment (electrifier + magnetic pulser + colloidal silver + ozonated water)
Without the addition of ozonated water, the rapid detoxification caused by the zapper or Beck electrifier can be rather intense and uncomfortable for the body. By drinking ozone-charged water, the benefits of ozone are enjoyed and made simple and inexpensive.
Ozone when directly ingested with water, provides a remarkable boost to total system oxygenation, plus natural and rapid detoxification. Blood oxygen measurements show dramatic increases in blood oxygen within minutes.
Ozone rapidly converts (ozonizes) toxins and wastes in your body cells to H2O and CO2 which flush out easily and rapidly.

!@#$%! · 11.21.2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cantankerous

here's news for you geeks:
it's fucking bottled tap water. these people are making a killing on TAP WATER.

tit, that's not true.

SOME bottle waters are tap waters. but they are PURIFIED tap waters-- MINUS the chlorine, fluoride, and other contaminants. if you want to call them contaminants or not it's up to you. i fucking hate chlorine.

anyway you could get pretty much the same result, without buying bottles, with a decent filter. that's what i do for cooking/coffee/tea etc. however in some situations the bottler (like coca cola or pepsi or nestle) will have much more sophisticated filtration/purification equipment that some $30 home thing, and more importantly, some people will not even take care of the filter properly.

OTHER bottle waters are spring waters, which means they come straight from the ground. they are still purified etc, so people don't drink feces. spring water is delicious, kicks the taste of tap water in the ass. as i said before, my cat (non-marketing influenced) loves volvic. he can't tell me why exactly but he loves it.

MINERAL water is tasty. i love it with a good meal. sparking mineral water kicks nasty soda in the ass.

but anyway, look, this is from the FDA

some quotes:

"Because lead can leach from pipes as water travels from water utilities to home faucets, the EPA set an action level of 15 parts per billion (ppb) in tap water. This means that when lead levels are above 15 ppb in tap water that reaches home faucets, water utilities must treat the water to reduce the lead levels to below 15 ppb. In bottled water, where lead pipes are not used, the lead limit is set at 5 ppb. Based on FDA survey information, bottlers can readily produce bottled water products with lead levels below 5 ppb. This action was consistent with the FDA's goal of reducing consumers' exposure to lead in drinking water to the extent practicable."

"Bottled water is produced and regulated exclusively for human consumption," Kay says. "Some people in their municipal markets have the luxury of good water. Others do not."

read up & get informed before repeating misinformation

11.20.2007, 12:50 PM	#1
Rob Instigator invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the land of the Instigator Posts: 27,991	from ESPN.com (of all places!) TMQ -- Best If Read By Wednesday Morning: Recently, I was sitting at a boring staff meeting -- I mean, at a vital staff meeting -- and drinking bottled water. I looked at the cap, which was stamped BEST BY 11-14-09. Not best by 2009 or even November 2009, best by Nov. 14, 2009. What, exactly, would begin to happen inside this bottle on Nov. 15, 2009? Ever more products that ought to have a shelf life measured in decades if not centuries, such as water packaged in glass, are stamped with near-term expiration dates in hopes you'll throw them away and buy more. This isn't just a minor concern about bottled water and soda. Studies have shown that most over-the-counter and prescription drugs in solid pill form remain safe and potent for many years past the expiration date, yet people throw away expired pills and spend big money to replace them. AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast If water has an expiration date, and the universe is 14 billion years old, doesn't that mean all the water in the universe expired 13.999999 billion years ago? Bottled water note 1: Check the PiMag Aqua Pour System from trendy appliances brand Nikken, which employs "an ingenious gravity flow system." When you open the spigot, gravity causes the water to flow down into your cup. Ingenious! Bottled water note 2: Fiji water really comes from Fiji -- think of the fossil resources used to ship it. Charles Fishman reports in Fast Company magazine that last year Americans drank 28.3 gallons per capita of bottled water, versus 1.6 gallons per capita in 1976. The 2006 figure is an 18-fold increase in three decades, and it works out to 226 16-ounce water bottles per American per year. People buy bottled water in New York City, though its tap water, which comes from upstate reservoirs, tastes delicious and contains no contamination. Fishman pointed out that bottled water is even popular in San Francisco, though San Francisco tap water comes from Yosemite National Park and tastes really good. If San Francisco tap water were sold as Yosemite Water and cost too much, then people would want it! The bottled water craze began in Europe, where civic water is not as pure as here and often "hard" -- in much of Europe, you're smart to drink bottled water or to use a Brita filter. In America, where most tap water is of high quality and good flavor, bottled water is in many uses just another frill; and it takes substantial amounts of petroleum to manufacture the plastic in the bottles, plus ship bulk water around the country. Imagine telling the 1 billion people worldwide who lack access to clean drinking water that Americans use clear, pure drinking-quality water to wash their cars, then drink from water bottles and throw the bottles away. That last is my feared real explanation for the bottled water craze -- we've become too lazy to fill a glass, drink and return the glass to the kitchen. We want to throw the bottle away. Bottled water note 3: A recent spate of news accounts pointed out that two major brands are not spring water but, rather, tap water that has been through an extra purification cycle. After these reports, the International Bottled Water Association bought full-page ads in The New York Times and other major newspapers, extolling its member companies' products. This is another example of TMQ's Law of Corporate Scandals: Bad for Everyone But Newspapers. Whenever there is a corporate scandal, the involved party buys full-page newspaper ads to state its case. Here, the IBWA explains that hard-hitting annual facilities inspections are conducted by "an independent, highly qualified technical auditing and compliance firm" that, ahem, works on contract to the IBWA. __________________ RXTT's Intellectual Journey - my new blog where I talk about all the books I read.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.20.2007, 12:53 PM	#2
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,648	<Homer> mmmm..... frills... </Homer>
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.20.2007, 12:54 PM	#3
SuchFriendsAreDangerous invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: fucking Los Angeles Posts: 14,801	It’s not the water that has an expiration date, it is the plastic bottles. "What, exactly, would begin to happen inside this bottle on Nov. 15, 2009?” well, the standards for the cleanliness of these bottles is measured to a low degree, and so these expiration dates are there because the bottles and cans are acknowledged as being only clean to a degree, and so after this time, the bacteria, fungus and even algae that are already living in the bottles and cans when they were filled and sealed, could have grown to a dangerous or at least distasteful proportion. Of course that is a big if.... think of the expiration dates as security deposits for the companies in case some of these 'expired' bottles should become infectious. But still companies spend millions of dollars a year taking back expired cans and bottles as "out of code" stock, and there are rigorous fines imposed on companies or retailers who have 'out of code' products on the shelf. __________________ Today Rap music is the Lakers
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.20.2007, 01:34 PM	#4
Rob Instigator invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the land of the Instigator Posts: 27,991	boy that's fucking nasty to think about. __________________ RXTT's Intellectual Journey - my new blog where I talk about all the books I read.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.20.2007, 02:27 PM	#5
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,648	yeah. drink from glass.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.20.2007, 02:29 PM	#6
val-holla-ing invito al cielo Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: baton rouge. the 225, big raggedy. Posts: 2,731	fuck bottled water. i drink my good, cancerous, louisiana tap water like it's going out of style. __________________ please do not misconstrue the previous statement as an invitation for same sex relations or as negative towards anyone of another sexuality. -cam'ron (formerly "no homo")
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.20.2007, 03:06 PM	#7
StevOK expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Henrietta, TX Posts: 2,412	mmmm, dinosaur piss. __________________ Follow me! Soundcloud Tumblr Facebook
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.20.2007, 03:11 PM	#8
mangajunky expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Englewood, NJ Posts: 1,247	I drink my tap water but since my building is over a hundred years old I worry a bit about lead pipes. My tap tastes good. The worst of the bottled waters is Dasani which is made by the coca-cola company. It's "purified" tap water with salt added. Why do they add salt? __________________ -Franky Don't let yer meat loaf.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.20.2007, 03:14 PM	#9
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,648	for flavor? so it doesnt taste like distilled water. i'll drink dasani if im desperate.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.20.2007, 03:20 PM	#10
mangajunky expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Englewood, NJ Posts: 1,247	heh heh - spunk __________________ -Franky Don't let yer meat loaf.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.20.2007, 04:48 PM	#11
tesla69 Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 4,055	* Supposedly freezing the plastic bottles releases deadly gases which mix with the water. * Fuji water tastes really crisp. I love it. They probably add sugar. * For the most part American tap water is safe to begin with, but the added flouride and chlorine may not be on some people's safe list. especially flouride which seems to be a huge scam that now the System can't get out of - it'll be another of those "Butter is deadly use safe margarine" scams. * So I'm walking around NYC, where am I going to get tap water? Go in to a bar and ask for it? Yeah right. How long will it be before the sign "water is for customers only" goes up next to "Bathrooms are for customers only". I've been told all my life by the Spectacle that public water fountains are ground zero for bacteria and germs. Oh well soon the price of oil will be so high the plastic bottle will cost more than the water or shipping it.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.20.2007, 05:03 PM	#12
atari 2600 invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 8,213	The guy came the other day and brought me a new cooler machine and took the old one away as he was delivering new five gallon spring water bottles for it. The new cooler machine is made in Mexico. The one he took was made in China and is being recalled. As it turns out, the model is known to cause electrical fires.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.20.2007, 05:40 PM	#13
Rob Instigator invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the land of the Instigator Posts: 27,991	fluoride does prevent cavities. there is no "scam" about it. chlorination of the water prevents algae growth in water resting in underground pipes. it is all wonderful stuff. don;t know about new york, but most every bar I ever been to has free water for anyone. __________________ RXTT's Intellectual Journey - my new blog where I talk about all the books I read.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.20.2007, 07:16 PM	#14
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,648	yeah, but theres no algae in my bottled water either and no chlorine. and true about the fluoride, but ive got plenty of fluoride in my toothpaste--no reason to have to piss it. the effect of fluoride is on rubbing against the teeth, not infusing your veins with it. anyway, read up on fluoride --fun stuff
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.20.2007, 07:26 PM	#15
EyeballGrowth the end of the ugly Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 992	Bottled water is 100% scam. All the water in those bottles comes from a fucking tap, no question about it. It's exactly the same as tap water, no difference. I sell about 30 24packs of that stuff to people everyday and it pains me to do so.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.20.2007, 10:59 PM	#17
Cantankerous invito al cielo Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A RETIREMENT HOME Posts: 18,499	here's news for you geeks: it's fucking bottled tap water. these people are making a killing on TAP WATER. __________________ RETIRED
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.21.2007, 10:56 AM	#19
atari 2600 invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 8,213	At any rate, the water I buy is spring water that has been ozonated. And the containers are five gallon bottles that are reused over and over again. Although it is true that I should probably just buy my own ozonator and save money in the long run, I like using the hot and cold running water cooler. Ozone as a Detoxifier Ozone is widely recognised for its detoxifying affects upon the body. A simple ozonator provides this benefit for free. Ozonated water is being trialed in the Compassion Response Network trials as part of two of the treatments; Zapper + colloidal silver + ozonated water, Dr Bob Beck treatment (electrifier + magnetic pulser + colloidal silver + ozonated water) Without the addition of ozonated water, the rapid detoxification caused by the zapper or Beck electrifier can be rather intense and uncomfortable for the body. By drinking ozone-charged water, the benefits of ozone are enjoyed and made simple and inexpensive. Ozone when directly ingested with water, provides a remarkable boost to total system oxygenation, plus natural and rapid detoxification. Blood oxygen measurements show dramatic increases in blood oxygen within minutes. Ozone rapidly converts (ozonizes) toxins and wastes in your body cells to H2O and CO2 which flush out easily and rapidly.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|