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12.20.2007, 02:07 PM
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#1 |
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invito al cielo
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: fucking Los Angeles
Posts: 14,801
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http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/unreasonableman/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC9Hal0gycg This was a really good documentary, which you all should watch. particullarly those of you out there who agree with the myth that "a vote for Nader was a vote for Bush" or even worse that Kerry should have been elected cuz anything is better then bush. Nader spoke the truth here. He did not cost Gore the election. Florida won Bush the election by 537 votes. EVERY THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE IN FLORIDA RECIEVED MORE THEN 537 votes. Nader did not cost anyone the election period. everybody is stupid the way the reacted to him, political nightmare. he spoke the truth, there is not a dime of difference between the two parties, it is chosing the less of two evils, I man chose no evil. boycott american democracy, it is a farce. by the way, Nader pointed out correctly, if the democrats were so right, then why did they lose twice? why did so many registered democrats vote for bush in both elections? saying Nader cost the election is a cop-out for the failures of the American two-party system.
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Today Rap music is the Lakers 
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12.20.2007, 03:23 PM
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invito al cielo
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,213
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I saw the promos for it the other night.
I've yet to see the documentary. |
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12.20.2007, 03:31 PM
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expwy. to yr skull
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Englewood, NJ
Posts: 1,247
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Nice - it's playing @ Midnight on Christmas Eve - something to watch with my brother when I visit my mom.
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-Franky  Don't let yer meat loaf. |
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12.20.2007, 04:32 PM
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invito al cielo
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: fucking Los Angeles
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Quote:
it was really good. Nader reminded everybody that Kerry failed to win because he was a failure to begin with, that he promised nothing, and the democratic campaign of vote for democrats cuz at least we are better then republicans was bullshit.... last honest man in America i tell you, is Ralph Nader
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Today Rap music is the Lakers
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12.21.2007, 02:26 PM
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invito al cielo
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: fucking Los Angeles
Posts: 14,801
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bump
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12.22.2007, 07:27 PM
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#6 |
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invito al cielo
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: fucking Los Angeles
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Ralph Nader's Record of Accomplishments
Instrumental in the passing of the following legislation: National Automobile and Highway Traffic Safety Act (1965) Clean Water Act (1968) Clean Air Act (1970) Co-Op Bank Bill (1978) Law establishing Environmental Protection Agency (1970) Consumer Product Safety Act Foreign Corrupt Practices Act Mine Health and Safety Act Whistleblower Protection Act Medical Devices safety Nuclear power safety Mobile home safety Consumer credit disclosure law Pension protection law Funeral home cost disclosure law Tire safety & grading disclosure law Wholesome Meat Act Natural Gas Pipeline Safety Act Federal Coal Mine Health and Safety Act Wholesome Poultry Product Act Occupational Safety and Health Act (OSHA) 1970 Safe Water Drinking Act Freedom of Information Act National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act
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Today Rap music is the Lakers
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12.22.2007, 07:35 PM
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#7 |
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invito al cielo
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,755
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Does anyone even care about Ralph Nader anymore? He's not even a real politician. He's just a joke vote for stoners.
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rip |
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12.22.2007, 08:07 PM
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#8 | |
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invito al cielo
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: fucking Los Angeles
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Quote:
what part of all of this was a joke? Ralph Nader's Record of Accomplishments Instrumental in the passing of the following legislation: National Automobile and Highway Traffic Safety Act (1965) Clean Water Act (1968) Clean Air Act (1970) Co-Op Bank Bill (1978) Law establishing Environmental Protection Agency (1970) Consumer Product Safety Act Foreign Corrupt Practices Act Mine Health and Safety Act Whistleblower Protection Act Medical Devices safety Nuclear power safety Mobile home safety Consumer credit disclosure law Pension protection law Funeral home cost disclosure law Tire safety & grading disclosure law Wholesome Meat Act Natural Gas Pipeline Safety Act Federal Coal Mine Health and Safety Act Wholesome Poultry Product Act Occupational Safety and Health Act (OSHA) 1970 Safe Drinking Water Act Freedom of Information Act National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act It seems to me like the joke is on you... was the Clean Water Act a Joke? how about job safety and OSHA? http://www.osha.gov/ Safe Drinking Water Act http://www.epa.gov/safewater/sdwa/sdwa.html oh yeah, and the Freedom of Information Act http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/ thats a big laugh. Credit Disclosure Act? http://www.creditscoring.com/pages/laws.htm Clean Air Act? http://www.ace.mmu.ac.uk/eae/Air_Qua..._Air_Acts.html etc etc etc... get over your self-righteous pretension which keeps you in ignorance. it is not that Nader was every going to be president, it is that he asked the big questions on the big platform, which apprantely people such as yrself are content to ignore. Nader to a big dive in his legacy, had he not ran for president then people would only remember all the shit posted above, but alas, all they know is the propaganda from the Two-Party elitists...
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12.22.2007, 09:14 PM
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#9 |
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invito al cielo
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Orstralia
Posts: 4,917
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And this documentary isn't propaganda?
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I want girls with new-wave hair-doos |
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12.22.2007, 09:32 PM
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invito al cielo
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,755
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Sayin'. Listen, Suchfriends, you're an insane conspiracy nut. Those accomplishments are noteworthy. Still doesn't mean he's a fucking joke vote. There is absolutely no reason to vote for Ralph Nader and he is the reason GWB has been our president for the last 8 fucking years. If that 1-2% of liberals had thought to themselves to vote for a DEMOCRAT instead of an independent that was going to under absolutely no circumstances win. Explain to me, then, why he isn't a joke vote.
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rip |
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12.22.2007, 09:34 PM
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#11 |
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invito al cielo
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,608
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How about some electoral college reform?
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KALOPSIA |
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12.23.2007, 05:16 PM
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invito al cielo
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: fucking Los Angeles
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wendeme (my brother), the joke isn't on Ralph Nader, its on all of America. Voting for Nader is a "fucking vote joke" but so is every other vote. its all bullshit. My point of this thread was not to promote "Nader 4 President". and you are absolutely wrong. ralph nader did not cost anyone any election. the majority of registered voters in the US are independent. There were other thirdparty candidates other then Ralph Nader, and further, to accuse any third party candidate as costing the election goes against the grain of the very nature of multi-party democracy. of course, that is the flaw in presidential system to begin with, should proportional. The multiparty system in US is simply a form of two-party facism, not democracy. as I said, Nader himself never expected to be president. Voting for him was a sort of Election Boycott, and honestly it was rather effective. further, I think your definition of voting is wrong. You clearly promote voting for someone who could "win" but you are supposed to vote for who you want to vote for, the person who represents your interests. you fuck up the whole concept when you change your voting decisions based upon likeliness of winning. You dont vote for the winner, you vote for who you believe in. It is the president of the United States, not the fucking president of the Student Council.... and by the way, I see you believe in democratic party propaganda in saying "if the 1-2% of liberals".... (ie just voted democrat then blah blah woof woof). that is bullshit. if all the registered democrats would just have voted democrat is more valid and appropriate, considering 5-10% of democrats play the field and in 2000 voted for Bush....
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12.23.2007, 07:29 PM
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100%
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 725
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But then, in the more up-market newspapers on the weekend there were articles about how in our recent federal elections the Labor candidates were coached for weeks on what to say, do, and how to behave in debates. Best of all the writers all thought this was a great thing and couldn't praise it enough, so I guess our democracy is in the toilet too. |
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12.24.2007, 09:08 AM
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bad moon rising
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canastota, NY USA
Posts: 147
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Lots of votes are "joke votes" thanks to the Electoral College. I live in NYS and no matter what I do a Democrat will be (s)elected. Unless you reside in a "battleground state" your vote is pretty much a joke. The two party system is a joke to begin with.
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"...If nothing is everything, then I will have it all..." |
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12.24.2007, 11:22 AM
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100%
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 725
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5Agent1, I believe that requires what Noam Chomsky calls "tactical voting" - if you're in a safe state, which you are, organise or at least vote for independents and/or third-parties (at all levels of course, not just federal), this builds up support, increases awareness, provides access to public financing, all of which hopefully get some representatives elected; in a 'battle ground' state...well 'cause it's a shitty system I guess you're stuck with The Less Extreme Faction of the Business Party
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12.24.2007, 02:05 PM
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invito al cielo
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: fucking Los Angeles
Posts: 14,801
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Quote:
awo, awo, ena awo (Yes, yes and yes!) of course, lets be honest. indy and other third party only are effective in the local and state levels. and the whole, I guess you're stuck with idea is exactly what fucked up the world to begin with. remember you are only stuck with government which you support, and it is your popular support that becomes their sovereign mandate. we empower them with our own apathy and lethargy and abdication...
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12.24.2007, 03:00 PM
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#17 |
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invito al cielo
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,213
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True, we are supposed to vote for the person for president and the presidential ticket that we really believe in. I will never dispute that, at least in ideality.
As someone who volunteered for Nader/LaDuke, I certainly used to feel that very strongly. Nevertheless, I don't see how it can reasonably be stated that Nader's presence in the race didn't affect Gore's electoral results negatively. I just don't know if, at least in this day and age, adherence to an independent party is all that effective. True, there isn't a whole lot of choice. But I also do not agree that Kerry/Edwards was all that bad of a ticket. To write that Kerry/Edwards is no better than Bush/Cheney is bonkers to me. True, Kerry is a Yale Skull & Bones member, but why is that everyone forgets how Kerry welcomed ridicule and invited misunderstanding with how he resolutely stood up for his beliefs during and after Vietnam? How does that or the fact that he's a war hero of the highest order get continually overlooked when people evaluate his character? I think people are far too hung up on looks. And sometimes people get all spun-out too because of propaganda about voting records. People make mistakes and learn from them; life is a process. Well, at least it is for most people in general. Life is recognized as a process by nearly everyone everywhere; that is, except for George Dubya. Bush, of course, never admits to any errors in his judgement. Let's examine Kerry's choice for running mate, Senator John Edwards. Here's a guy that has now wisened up and who, along with Senator Barack Obama, is the only candidate for president that has refused to take contributions from political action committees. That's real change. That's a real commitment. Here we find a case of someone actually putting their money where their mouth is, which is extremely rare in today's political milieu. Edwards is someone that has a sure chance of winning the presidency for the Democrats, but some sort of obvious corruption is holding him back. Instead, likely to be nominated is Hillary Clinton who has accepted more money than any candidate, be they Democrat or Republican. I'd rather vote for John McCain if it came down to between him or Hillary Clinton, although I'd rather not have to vote for the narrow-minded, aging, ex-P.O.W. at all. Still, it's apparent to me that John's more honest that Hillary. If it comes down to Guiliani against Clinton, then shit, I guess I just gotta leave the country. You too can call me "an unreasonable man," but unless something changes soon, and quickly, the shit is really going to hit the fan. Oh well, we'll see how the Iowa caucus and New Hampshire primaries go. |
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12.24.2007, 05:20 PM
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invito al cielo
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: fucking Los Angeles
Posts: 14,801
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Quote:
wendeme (my brother), its very simple. Nader did not cost Gore the race. Gore cost Gore the race. Gore could not even get his own states to vote for him. Nearly 10 million registered Democrats voted for Bush in that election. Did Nader cost Gore those 10 million votes? Of course not. Did Nader cost Gore Florida? Well yes technically, but as I said before, EVERY SINGLE THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE RECEIVED MORE THEN THE 537 VOTES IN FLORIDA WHICH GAVE THAT STATE TO BUSH.... so again, did Nader really cost Gore Florida? No, Gore cost himself the election, Kerry too. The Democratic Party are as scary a bunch of motherfuckers as the Republicans. Quote:
esemegena! (Thank you!)
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12.25.2007, 04:08 AM
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100%
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 725
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later confirmed by Gary Webbs work 'Dark Alliance', the CIAs own internal investigation (done at the height of the Lewinsky circus so nobody heard about it) and Alfred W. McCoys revised 2003 edition of 'The Politics of Heroin' |
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12.25.2007, 07:09 PM
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#20 |
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children of satan
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 295
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only time in my life ive ever heard the electoral college been questioned was after the democrats lost the presidency in 2000..what a shock!
didnt hear for any calls of getting rid of the electoral colege during clintons 8 years...again....shocking, hehe
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the nerve, the unmitigated gall of this asshole - atari2600 i consider you dumb, ignorant, and irrelevant perhaps more than a fly, but less than a fart. a joke - !@#$%! Death by a firing squard of ten black gay men would be too good for this shithead. - atari2600 loser retard. pothead - !@#$%! you're a real prick for acting so daft & being so disagreeable on purpose - atari2600 On the contrary, tesla69 is idiota numero uno - atari2600 |
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