[Inhuman]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/13/eco....ap/index.html

This financial crisis is going to cause mad trouble, the worst is yet to come. How can somebody shoot their 3 children, wife, and then themselves? It's so sad that some people value their financial situation over their loved ones.

[floatingslowly]

I don't have too much sympathy for people that got themselves into the mess they're in (although I do feel bad for the children). most of these people that are now finding themselves broke were living too far beyond their means to begin with. now they have to face the muzac.

Originally Posted by cnn.com

A 90-year-old Ohio widow shoots herself in the chest as authorities arrive to evict her from the modest house she called home for 38 years.

like this lady for example. she is now the poster-child for this terrible mess. well, 3 years ago (when she was 87) she took out a 30 year mortgage on her home along with $18k in cash. and now, after the shit hit the fan and she SHOT herself, they are letting her keep everything because it sucks when old people shoot themselves.

she is just as much a part of the problem as the people on Wall Street gambling away life-savings on inflated housing markets. although I'd like to know who gives out 30 year loans to octogenarians, what 87 year old takes out such a loan and fully expects to pay it back??

[greedrex]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

I'd like to know who gives out 30 year loans to octogenarians, what 87 year old takes out such a loan and fully expects to pay it back??

i totally agree with what you say and have always thought so. This is crazy.
Mad fucks.

[HaydenAsche]

My friend Bret just killed himself two days ago. I'm pretty sure it isn't related to this.

[StevOK]

^Jebus. What a week for you.

[phoenix]

I'm not 100 percent convinced any of these cases have to do with money. People who are willing to shoot themselves or their family are pretty much just waiting for the right kind of motivation. Whether it be this or something else stupid. strange.

[DeadDiscoDildo]

Weird things, strange times, when the going get's weird...the weird turn pro.

[afterthefact]

Originally Posted by phoenix

I'm not 100 percent convinced any of these cases have to do with money. People who are willing to shoot themselves or their family are pretty much just waiting for the right kind of motivation. Whether it be this or something else stupid. strange.

I both agree and disagree. I think that their pursuit of money as the answer for all of life's questions and problems has driven them to this mental state so that when they do kill themselves, money may be a large contributing factor to their decision but other things are involved as well, such as never finding the happiness they thought they would have.

While I feel bad for the people they have killed (wife, kids, etc) I feel no sorrow for the suicide victims. There are other things in life to live for. Sorry you thought you found it and were wrong, but giving up instead of looking for other roads to happiness is pathetic.

[alteredcourse]

This just happened in the copy of the Watchmen collection. Spooky!

[Inhuman]

Originally Posted by phoenix

I'm not 100 percent convinced any of these cases have to do with money. People who are willing to shoot themselves or their family are pretty much just waiting for the right kind of motivation. Whether it be this or something else stupid. strange.

I'm with afterthefact on this. People can get so absorbed in their money that it alienates them and warps their mind. I'm sure that most of them are a combination of money and other problems

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by afterthefact

I both agree and disagree. I think that their pursuit of money as the answer for all of life's questions and problems has driven them to this mental state so that when they do kill themselves, money may be a large contributing factor to their decision but other things are involved as well, such as never finding the happiness they thought they would have.

While I feel bad for the people they have killed (wife, kids, etc) I feel no sorrow for the suicide victims. There are other things in life to live for. Sorry you thought you found it and were wrong, but giving up instead of looking for other roads to happiness is pathetic.

I can see how someone might think of money as the only answer, and feel disappointed, even wildly depressed.

My point was more that I believe people either have the mind set to do something like this, or they don't. For a lot of people who lose everything, life becomes incredibly sad and unbearable. It doesn't mean they all are driven to violence. Those with the mental potential to commit a violent crime that is unprovoked, are not average people. I really believe people have a predisposition toward committing violent crime, some more than others.

In a court case I can see how the person's troubles might be used as defence, because it can influence their behaviour, but at the end of the day I don't think the decision to shoot your entire family is a normal one, no matter what happens to you. Pleading mental illness would get you a lot further than 'I had no money left'

[phoenix]

fight or flight exists in everyone.

Rape is completely different to no money. You've/the person has been physically attacked. What about another situation where you are not faced with physical attack and therefore a threat to yr life?

I dont think everyone has the mindset to do this. There is a whole religion based around that idea. Not that it interests me in any way... but a lot of people choose not to participate in violence whether because they get in a car accident or have no money or are even at war.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

people kill over money related issues all the time. its not any sort of "shock" or "suprise" what-so-ever.

just even saying that is a huge point about how degraded the world is right now... .. well.. the human race.. some of us have the capacity for so much more. Most of us do. Unfort the smart do nothing but encourage others to beat each other up.


I dunno.. to me that is still shocking, and it always will be.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

i can see why theyed rather kill them than see 'em suffer.

suffer, HOW exactly? Living in a first world country as average income civillians? Sufferage compared to what?

"But he said he decided to kill his entire family because that was more honorable"

what twisted bs logic.

I completely and utterly cannot see why. Not in that situation, or almost any. In fact I think it is far more selfish than anything else.

It reeks of impatience, self importance, and ignorance.

There are people around the world facing far worse, and there have been people in the US for the past three years, facing far worse.

To take yr own life in such a situation, let alone your family.. is unintelligent, mentally disturbed, and completely ignorant of their own ability to seek help.

[Magic Wheel Memory]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

I'd like to know who gives out 30 year loans to octogenarians, what 87 year old takes out such a loan and fully expects to pay it back??

I'm a financial analyst, so I can shed some light on this. You see, if she's 87 years old when she takes out a 30-year loan, that means she will have to pay it off within 30 years. That means she has until she's 91 years old to pay it back. Now, 91 is kind of old, but it's not that unreasonable to expect her to live that long.

[Magic Wheel Memory]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

who takes out a 30 year loan execting to pay it back in 4 years?

Who said anything about paying it back in 4 years? It's a 30-year loan, so she would pay it back in 30 years.

[Magic Wheel Memory]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

because YOU said shed have until she was 91 one to pay it back. if shes 87...91 would be four years away. and NO WAY would she live to be 117.

Now, wait just a minute. If she was 87 when she took out the loan, then 30 years later, she would be 91. Why would she have to live be 117? Very few people live that long.

[Magic Wheel Memory]

Actually, Sway, I think you're right. I checked with a mathematician friend of mine and he says that 87 plus 30 is indeed 117, not 91. I really need to get this fucking calculator repaired! It keeps giving me inaccurate results at the worst moments.

For example, I recently got divorced and ended up with $17 in cash, while my wife kept the house and our new car. I didn't realize what a bad deal it was until after all the papers were signed.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

this is why....a long time ago of course...i got a lot of shit on THIS message board for saying most "poor" people i know are cooler than most (not all) of the richer people i know.

I totally agree.

That's not to say that I havent had really awesome friends who happen to have a lot of money. Its just that people who have to go without, often arent as caught up in meaningless problems, and know how to have a good time with next to no cash.

but...we're fucking taught that our DVD collections, the TYPE of stereo we have, the cars we drive, the houses we live in, the SHIT we own DOES matter...and none of that shit hardley matter at all. atleast...it shouldnt.

Its really hard to understand different cultures unless you've been a part of them.. so I can't comment on what it's like in the US apart from the sense I get from TV, internet, books etc. There are a lot of places that are like that here, but there are also a lot of places which are really opposite. It might have something to do with the extent of multiculturalism in my city, or it might just be a general australian attitude, but for most people, what someone buys or wears or owns means shit all if they are boring or an asshole.

This is also a huge reason why I love people who are honest in character... don't really care about what they 'dont' have or try to be something they are not, just because it would make them seem more valuable as a person.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

people that make 40 grand a year driving 50 thousand dollar cars and people that make 85 grand a year living in 180 thousand dollar houses

this is a serious question, because again I have no real experience living in another country, let alone the US.


But is that about average? Do you know the median house prices vs the median wage? (my cat has just kicked my hand and mouse off the mouse pad because he wants to sit there wtf??) Here it is around 7 x

So say your average household income is 80k, you're likely to be living in a house that cost around 560 to 600k. My partner and I make around 50k a year combined, and our first home(1 or 2 bedroom apartment) is going to cost us around 320k. Our interest rate has just dropped from 7% to 6% ish. We could probably buy a two or three bedroom house in suburbia, but we're going to rent it out and the rental market is more secure closer to the city.

so yeh. I just thought that number you said sounded really low. But you might have just pulled it out of the air and its not acurate? I'd love to know for general reference?