[batreleaser]

I've always been curious about this. It is such a commitment to work on art that you know is not going to support your life. And that has always been one of my attractions to the underground, the fact that these people are killing themselves to create something that they believe in.

Which begs the questions, have any of these people (Sonic Youth aside) that have made an impressive living through creating an unlistenable racket, or people that have come from money making it easier to follow their passion?

[keep poppin pimples]

probably most of them?

noise isn't really associated with rural communities or people in public housing etc.

[Glice]

Expressed as a percentage of people making noise, very nearly no-one makes any money - less since records can't be relied upon.

Some people move themselves cleverly and get bits of funding or charge a lot for tours. Some people have careers and do noise as a sideline. Some of them get old enough and notorious enough to charge well. There's a few people in the Free Improv scene (different, I know) who have alarmingly lucrative day careers meaning a money-haemorrhaging trip overseas isn't so much of a problem.

Essentially, the thing to always remember is that musicians as a whole are most likely to be destitute from music (unless they teach music or are very lucky), and they can't rely upon CD sales any more which makes anyone downloading things a total cunt.

[batreleaser]

I wish there was a web site like Celebrity Net Worth (guilty pleasure of mine, like holy shit asshole reprehensible jew/woman hating drunk has $425 million!?!?) for underground musicians. Something like, Masonna net worth, -$13 in his bank account.

I would assume some of the people who have established labels get some sort of life-sustaining income, Prurient, Carlos Giffoni, Nate Young, etc..

I know this is a weird post, but now that I'm living in New York and have now worked my way through college and 1/3 of grad school, money has become so much more of a huge worry to me. It really impresses me how much these people sacrifice to be putting this music out. It really bummed me out when I walked from my East Village apartment to 2nd ave and 3rd st to go to the Hospital Productions store only to realize that it had been closed for a couple of years (missed that memo i guess).

All I'm saying is it takes an impressive amount of courage to willfully dedicate your life to something that you know could totally lead to you being completely broke. And being broke, speaking from some experiences here and there, really really sucks.

[SYRFox]

I'd say William Bennett from Whitehouse may be, probably not "rich" but kind of wealthy. Considering how he collects African art, etc. Loving his stuff under his Cut Hands project by the way.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by SYRFox

I'd say William Bennett from Whitehouse may be, probably not "rich" but kind of wealthy. Considering how he collects African art, etc. Loving his stuff under his Cut Hands project by the way.

Bennett and Best both have other, well-paid jobs. I wouldn't want to speculate too much, but I can't imagine that they made all that much from Whitehouse.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by batreleaser

I wish there was a web site like Celebrity Net Worth (guilty pleasure of mine, like holy shit asshole reprehensible jew/woman hating drunk has $425 million!?!?) for underground musicians. Something like, Masonna net worth, -$13 in his bank account.

I would assume some of the people who have established labels get some sort of life-sustaining income, Prurient, Carlos Giffoni, Nate Young, etc..

I know this is a weird post, but now that I'm living in New York and have now worked my way through college and 1/3 of grad school, money has become so much more of a huge worry to me. It really impresses me how much these people sacrifice to be putting this music out. It really bummed me out when I walked from my East Village apartment to 2nd ave and 3rd st to go to the Hospital Productions store only to realize that it had been closed for a couple of years (missed that memo i guess).

All I'm saying is it takes an impressive amount of courage to willfully dedicate your life to something that you know could totally lead to you being completely broke. And being broke, speaking from some experiences here and there, really really sucks.

Most of the people I know of, and most of the people I know people who know of, either come to terms with the destitution or get other jobs. I've noticed that there's a lot of people who can deal with it until they hit a point in their 30s, then they tend to back out for a few years, some never to return, some to wait until the family life is settled. I think when there was the possibility of selling some records there was at least revenue - I suspect that all but a narrow handful can make it.

Colour out of Space (some of you may have heard of it) is struggling at the moment because it was financed largely by funding. It basically means that the festival can't happen, because it can't survive in the free market. There are fundraisers going on at the moment but (I'm speculating) it's most likely had to change its thinking. This is a city with a fairly healthy noise scene but the costs of getting acts over here are crippling. There's occasional gig swaps, and a lot of people don't mind playing out-of-town for a door split and a good night, but it definitely feels like the changes in the economy have seriously affected the ability of musicians to survive without supplementary incomes. I think that a different sort of music - say, a big-ish doom band - can do ok (by 'ok' I mean not putting themselves massively in debt to tour) once they hit the point of being able to sell 200 tickets, but that's not realistic in the noise scene - there's only so many noise fans.

Cards on the table, I'm a complete socialist in this matter - noise is an artform and governments should be supporting that. The other option is co-operatives, so feel free to form one to get your favourite people into your town.

Also, as someone who's now destitute I hope you realise that every time you buy a CD/ tape direct from a noise musician you've put a smile on their face and potentially bought them a sandwich.

[SYRFox]

Originally Posted by Glice

Bennett and Best both have other, well-paid jobs. I wouldn't want to speculate too much, but I can't imagine that they made all that much from Whitehouse.

must say, i wouldn't imagine it either

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by Glice

Cards on the table, I'm a complete socialist in this matter - noise is an artform and governments should be supporting that. The other option is co-operatives, so feel free to form one to get your favourite people into your town.

Socialism = the tax payer to pay for other people's hobbies?

[Rob Instigator]

are there any noise "artists?"

(I do not like the term "artist" being used for musicians. Just a pet peeve.)

[Rob Instigator]

I bet they make less money than Ben Weasel, and he earns around $40thou a year in royalties from the Screeching Weasel albums. Those have got to sell much more than any noise musician right?

[Genteel Death]

Masami Akita doesn't look like the type who has a regular job.

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

are there any noise "artists?"

(I do not like the term "artist" being used for musicians. Just a pet peeve.)

Why are musicians not artists? Don't tell me you are being wrong about something again, Rob. Not today.

[Rob Instigator]

Just seems self-aggrandizing, as if "musician" is a craftsman, a utilitarian type of laborer, and "artist" is someone with great, society-changing ideas.

[evollove]

Originally Posted by batreleaser

I know this is a weird post, but now that I'm living in New York and have now worked my way through college and 1/3 of grad school, money has become so much more of a huge worry to me.

I have a tacky, personal question:

How much have you ever made from music? I mean, roughly? Ever? In how many years?

I'm really curious.

[Dr Chocolate]

i bet John Zorn makes a decent living. at least i hope he does. and not that i know much about MERZBOW (i'm sure that's spelt wrong) but i'm going to guess he/she or it makes out alright. i mean. if there are still bands putting out albums (like vinyl) then people must be buying them up. they are all limited. but then again, how many are on the aftermarket and shit where people are selling them at stupid amounts on ebay.

not to go off topic, but it's kinda like how i think that theres got to be a 3rd party person(s) who are related to TMR somehow, and just sell mega rare albums on ebay, just to cash in on that market.

and if Ben Weasel is making $40,000. just imagine how much Joe Queer makes. and that band still tours! where, hasn't Screeching Weasel done fuck all for many years? i dont follow them, just cause i gave up on most of them back in the 90's

[Rob Instigator]

Ben Weasel says it pays for his mortgage and bills.

He is lucky though, because he retained royalties for the Screeching weasel records. They still sell several dozen thousand of each a year.

many bands do not retain royalties. Their contracts give the royalties to the record labels after a certain time...

[batreleaser]

Originally Posted by evollove

I have a tacky, personal question:

How much have you ever made from music? I mean, roughly? Ever? In how many years?

I'm really curious.

0 dollars. I dont make music. Not in many years. And not seriously ever. I write and I bitch and I attend school.

[SonicBebs]

i dont know much about noise but i'd guess any underground musician does it for love and has a day job?

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Dr Chocolate

i bet John Zorn makes a decent living. at least i hope he does. and not that i know much about MERZBOW (i'm sure that's spelt wrong) but i'm going to guess he/she or it makes out alright. i mean. if there are still bands putting out albums (like vinyl) then people must be buying them up. they are all limited. but then again, how many are on the aftermarket and shit where people are selling them at stupid amounts on ebay.

not to go off topic, but it's kinda like how i think that theres got to be a 3rd party person(s) who are related to TMR somehow, and just sell mega rare albums on ebay, just to cash in on that market.

and if Ben Weasel is making $40,000. just imagine how much Joe Queer makes. and that band still tours! where, hasn't Screeching Weasel done fuck all for many years? i dont follow them, just cause i gave up on most of them back in the 90's

john zorn gets a lot of artist grants because he is a 'culturally significant' composer. not to mention he made half a million from his macarthur genius grant.